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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:54 pm 
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Speaking of Trump failing to learn from things that happened in Germany, Berlin is shipping him a 2.5 ton section of their old wall:
Quote:
“We would like to give you one of the last pieces of the failed Berlin Wall to commemorate the United States’ dedication to building a world without walls,” says a message painted on the concrete slab, which is signed by “Citizens of Berlin.”

Well played.


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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:15 am 
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Dave_LF wrote:
Speaking of Trump failing to learn from things that happened in Germany, Berlin is shipping him a 2.5 ton section of their old wall:
Quote:
“We would like to give you one of the last pieces of the failed Berlin Wall to commemorate the United States’ dedication to building a world without walls,” says a message painted on the concrete slab, which is signed by “Citizens of Berlin.”

Well played.

Indeed! :clap:

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:17 am 
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A couple of articles caught my eye today. I would think under normal circumstances they would be bigger news... but I guess in this day & age (the Trump era) facts, knowledge, accountability, and a number of other things don't matter. He's bound and determined to drag us into the dark ages (of corruption).
E.P.A. to Limit Science Used to Write Public Health Rules
And
White House Ends Bar Association’s Role in Vetting Judges

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:03 pm 
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I am so burnt out I can't even bring myself to read the articles. Even knowing headlines can be deceiving (purposely so) I just read those and say "But of course... :nono: " and just... I can't anymore. I might have to go on another news blackout.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:41 pm 
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elengil, I had the same reaction to the headlines! :hug: :hug:

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:42 pm 
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I have to do that sometimes.. it's just so much. Overwhelming. Narcissists and cons bank on that. The exhaust factor. :(

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:13 am 
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The Bulwark. (who?)
The Alt-Right Turns on the GOP Establishment


Quote:
The night’s events suggest that while the political right has had some success trying to wield hate as a political tool, they may no longer be able to control it.

Nick Fuentes, the 21-year-old host of a YouTube show called “America First” who was the mastermind behind the disruption campaign, gloried in the collapse of the younger Trump’s event.

“I don’t know if you understand how big this is, this is the president’s son, the president’s son!” he exulted on a live stream during which he reacted to his viewers’ triumph. 


Part of the dark irony here is the the parties under attack built their brand on unfettered free speech and the ridicule of anyone they consider as easily offended.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:00 pm 
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Frelga, I read an article about that too. Unleashing hate and not being tethered to facts is a dangerous thing. Q-anon, conspiracy theorists, incels, white supremacists, playing to the lowest thoughts & impulses in society, it's all on the rise (or coming out-in-the-open) in the era of Trump.

This probably comes as no surprise, Stephen Miller, one of Trump's top policy advisors: GQ: White House Advisor Stephen Miller Just Got Outed for Explicit White Supremacist E-mails.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 3:49 am 
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Trump press secretary faces backlash over claim that Obama aides left ‘you will fail’ notes

Sent from my LG G6 using Tapatalk

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 4:41 am 
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What the heck is wrong with these people?

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 7:33 am 
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Quote:
That claim was not based on anything, Sanders told investigators from then-special counsel Robert S. Mueller III’s office.


So many ways not to call a lie what it is.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 3:36 pm 
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Just ran across this on FB. Journalists covering the caravan of migrants and reporting on conditions at the U.S./Mexico border were targeted, detained and interrogated. The ACLU is suing to protect their rights:

It is frightening to see freedom of speech/first amendment rights being eroded in this way. However, it is hardly surprising.

https://www.aclu.org/news/civil-liberti ... MtYYFUuhB8

It also brought THIS to mind. I think this quote is from well over a year ago, and referred to the detention of migrants, and separating children from parents:


Attachments:
Comparison to Nazis.jpg
Comparison to Nazis.jpg [ 17.62 KiB | Viewed 446 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 3:54 pm 
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People prefer to pick out the differences to seeing similarities.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 4:02 pm 
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That's the first step along the road to genocide, Frelga: 'us' vs. 'them'.

I'd say the U.S. is currently somewhere between stages 4 and 6 on this diagram:

https://www.hmd.org.uk/learn-about-the- ... -genocide/

I have seen people on anti-Muslim FB publications calling for the death of all Muslims, though.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 4:55 pm 
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Sunsilver wrote:
That's the first step along the road to genocide, Frelga: 'us' vs. 'them'.

I'd say the U.S. is currently somewhere between stages 4 and 6 on this diagram:

https://www.hmd.org.uk/learn-about-the- ... -genocide/

I have seen people on anti-Muslim FB publications calling for the death of all Muslims, though.


I dunno, I'd say we're pretty solidly on 7. But maybe these are somewhat flexible in exact order. :(

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 5:12 pm 
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Sunsilver wrote:
That's the first step along the road to genocide, Frelga: 'us' vs. 'them'.


Sorry, I realize I should have been more explicit about what I meant. Allow me to rephrase.

Americans prefer to pick out differences between what went on in Germany in 1930s and what is going on in the US now rather than recognize the use of a very similar playbook.

There are significant differences, of course, but not so significant that we can ignore the similarities.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 5:22 pm 
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Frelga wrote:
Sunsilver wrote:
That's the first step along the road to genocide, Frelga: 'us' vs. 'them'.


Sorry, I realize I should have been more explicit about what I meant. Allow me to rephrase.

Americans prefer to pick out differences between what went on in Germany in 1930s and what is going on in the US now rather than recognize the use of a very similar playbook.

There are significant differences, of course, but not so significant that we can ignore the similarities.



Part of it is the almost farcical way people have reduced Nazis, Nazi Germany, and Hitler to the absolute pinnacle of the unattainable. The whole Godwin's Law thing means that simply mentioning them automatically renders your argument invalid, no matter how you bring it up or attempt to draw real parallels, people have this sense that if you have to resort to that you've got nothing.

Which literally makes no sense, if it happened once it's obviously something that can happen, but we've turned it practically into an evil villain fairy tale where no one could ever really do that, it's like they honestly do believe that it couldn't ever happen, without actually denying it did happen they seem to deny it really did because if they admit it did happen once then it isn't unattainable, it's real and possible and terrifying.

Nazis and Hitler have become bogeymen, used only to scare but not taken as realities. It is terrifying that people are so quick to dismiss any and every parallel because of that.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 6:49 pm 
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It's a sad situation. In conversations I've had with Trumpsters they justify the policies because (most) of the targeted people are not citizens and we are not (in most circumstances) taking away citizenship as was done in Germany. It also differs because we are not going into other countries to round people up. So it does differ from what happened during the Holocaust in those ways. I am NOT defending the situation (not by a long shot), just pointing out valid differences. I do not agree with the inhumane way people are being treated. I take issue with all of those Trumpsters (and others) who claim to be 'Christians' yet show no christian compassion.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:06 pm 
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RoseMorninStar wrote:
It's a sad situation. In conversations I've had with Trumpsters they justify the policies because (most) of the targeted people are not citizens and we are not (in most circumstances) taking away citizenship as was done in Germany. It also differs because we are not going into other countries to round people up. So it does differ from what happened during the Holocaust in those ways. I am NOT defending the situation (not by a long shot), just pointing out valid differences. I do not agree with the inhumane way people are being treated. I take issue with all of those Trumpsters (and others) who claim to be 'Christians' yet show no christian compassion.


I agree with Frelga in that it doesn't have to be identical to be, essentially, the same. No, we haven't *yet* stripped people of citizenship, but I've heard people call for it. We haven't invaded other countries in order to kill certain people, but that is really a very minor distinction, IMO, because we are actually invading other countries/violating their sovereignty, or in some cases more importantly not preventing their invasion by others (Crimea/Russia, Kurds/Turkey), or even taking a hands-off such as with the Hong-Kong protesters. Why invade when you can get someone else to do it for you?

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:11 pm 
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One thing I like about the chart showing the progression to genocide I linked to above is that it references genocides OTHER than the Holocaust, thus avoiding Godwin's law for the most part (though of course, the Nazi genocide is mentioned as well).

The last step in the progression is a real kick in the gut, as we are seeing a surge in Holocaust denial, as well as people denying that slavery was as bad as it was, the Civil War NOT primarily being about slavery, etc.

The horrible thing about the diagram is the sheer NUMBER of genocides mentioned. Of course, there are many others that are not included. The treatment of indigenous people in North and South America and even Australia falls into the category of genocide, for one.

Elengil, how about Trump pardoning soldiers who were accused of murdering civilians in Muslim countries? :( https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/22/opin ... rimes.html

What these men did was so bad that their OWN TROOPS turned them in! :help:

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