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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 8:43 pm 
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I miss Prim ...
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I frankly think the office of the President deserves respect, even when the actions of our President at times don't.


Hard disagree.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 9:02 pm 
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"I was only following orders" is a parallel statement to "Respect the office".

There comes a time when it is necessary to overlook the office and act on conscience.

Besides, as Griffon stated so eloquently, in Donald Trump's silo existence, he does not encounter opposition, and the fictional reality of his greatness and genius is fed and freed - the illusion of limitless power is a dangerous thing for anyone, and most especially a malignant narcissist, as it deepens his delusion.

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Last edited by Impenitent on Mon Oct 28, 2019 9:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 9:04 pm 
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And when the holder of the office debases it...what then?

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 9:16 pm 
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River wrote:
And when the holder of the office debases it...what then?
In extreme cases, you begin impeachment proceeding to remove him from office. Otherwise you work to vote him out. Chanting lock him up is less than ineffective. It lowers you to his level.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 9:25 pm 
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Citizens can't impeach him, only Congress can do that. But citizens can, when given this rare opportunity to express it in person, make it very clear, very loudly what they think of him and what he has done. Frankly, I hope he is boo'd publicly everywhere he goes for the rest of his damn life.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:49 pm 
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Meanwhile...
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Voronwë the Faithful wrote:
River wrote:
And when the holder of the office debases it...what then?
In extreme cases, you begin impeachment proceeding to remove him from office. Otherwise you work to vote him out. Chanting lock him up is less than ineffective. It lowers you to his level.

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We are already seeing that our elected representatives are arguing against the very idea of impeachment, without denying the facts of alleged transgressions. Don't forget that non-violent expressions of protest send a message to them, not just the president alone.

Among the many threads I don't have time to start, is Calls for Civility as a Tool of Oppression.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 11:27 pm 
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Frelga wrote:
Among the many threads I don't have time to start, is Calls for Civility as a Tool of Oppression.

THIS! So much this! Although I agree with Voronwë's sentiments (and those of the article he posted), generally speaking & under normal circumstances. Normal circumstances these ain't. I think it's very good for Trump AND the Republicans who are not doing their job & are viewing Trump through a layer of varnish.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 2:32 am 
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Of all the commentaries I've read on this, this one is by far the best. It manages to hit all the points mentioned in this thread: why it feels so good to hear him booed, even if we feel guilty afterwards, and the dangers of confronting evil with civility:

Quote:
Civility is a wonderful thing, when shared among equals. When people who have power require civility from those with less, or none, though, that demand is a cudgel, a weapon the haves use to keep the have-nots in line. When you’re confronted with evil, you don’t shake its hand or applaud it. If booing is incivility, bring it on.


Finally, it concludes with the point made by Voronwë, and the article he quoted:

Quote:
If we’ve got to smear and slime and meme and mock our way to victory, who will we be after we’ve won? When does a necessary evil become just evil?

Maybe we can take a stand and do what’s necessary without discounting the cost; go low when it’s required without reveling in the other side’s pain, taking care we don’t get stuck down in the dirt. Because if Donald Trump remakes all of us in his image, no matter who takes the White House in 2020, he will have won.


I really think I need to take out a subscription to the Times. Every month, I max out the number of articles I'm allowed to read, but for some reason, their paywall isn't blocking me from this one. Maybe they think it's just too damn important!

It takes a skilled writer to make opposing points in an article, and have you agree with everything she says! Especially revealing to me was just how isolated from reality Trump is. I know he likes to surround himself with sycophants, I just never realized before the extent of his isolation. It's difficult for someone who doesn't live such a life of wealth and privilege to really grasp it.

Quote:
The booing was necessary, insofar as his trip to Nationals Park was one of the few times Mr. Trump has crept out of his self-made bubble and encountered something resembling the real world. When he eats out, it’s in a restaurant in a hotel he owns; when he plays golf, it’s at a club he owns; when he’s with a crowd, it’s his crowd.

Inside and outside of the White House, Mr. Trump has surrounded himself with sycophants and suck-ups, minions who stroke the emperor’s ego and assure him that his decisions are wise and his phone calls are perfect and his new clothes are absolutely the best. The boos were a reality check, real-life proof that it’s not just the “corrupt” media or the “do-nothing Democrats” who oppose him.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 2:48 am 
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I posted the article acknowledging the schadenfreude of it, so I won't pretend my enjoyment of it is coming from some high and noble place, nor do I expect that it was for most of the people who participated. Nonetheless, I do firmly believe that the booing was a good and reasonable form of a small protest in that moment. (The "lock him up" chant is definitely more petty, but I have no qualms about saying I love it anyways.)

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 3:22 am 
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Wonderful post Sunny.


Yov, I would agree the 'lock him up' was petty, but it seems a coming full circle of sorts. During the GOP convention where Michael Flynn (of all people) incited the chant with some rather oddly prophetic statements:
Michael Flynn wrote:
“You know why we’re saying that? We’re saying that because if I, a guy who knows this business, if I did a tenth, a tenth of what she did, I would be in jail today.”
And
Quote:
"We do not need a reckless president who believes she is above the law."
However, the best part, imho, is that the chant thrown back at those who originally dealt it disables or takes the wind out of it. It neutralizes something that has been used as a PR weapon against anyone Trump dislikes/views as a political rival.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 2:23 am 
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OsBOWSjOL ... e=youtu.be

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:49 am 
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of Vinyamar
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Seriously, how do you parody that. Trump is his own parody.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:00 pm 
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Alatar wrote:
Seriously, how do you parody that. Trump is his own parody.


Funny you mention that...

https://youtu.be/NedGGsT1GEA?t=250 Using 2011 Trump to respond to 2019 Trump.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:55 pm 
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It's beyond unfortunate that what Trump says and does is of so much consequence.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:18 pm 
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https://www.teenvogue.com/story/trump-t ... 4FMoD4kQpU

Quote:
Ignoring this longstanding precedent, the Trump administration argued in its brief that employers can insist that men and women dress in a manner that aligns with stereotypical understandings of gender. Title VII, Trump’s lawyers claim, permits employers to force women to conform to sex stereotypes so long as they also force men to conform to parallel sex stereotypes. Under this logic, an employer is off the hook for forcing women to wear skirts so long as it prohibits men from doing so.
...
Thanks to our clients’ bravery in speaking out, girls at the school now have the freedom to walk to school in the winter without freezing-cold legs, or to swing on the monkey bars during recess without risking showing their underwear. Our clients feel more at ease and more able to concentrate during class in pants. Yet if the Trump administration has its way, schools and employers can soon force women and girls to wear stereotypically “feminine” clothing like skirts and dresses.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:08 pm 
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Another news-person jumps the FOX ship, "Facts Matter"

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:33 pm 
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Glad to know SOMEONE at Fox thinks 'facts matter'! I wish her all the best!


Attachments:
Alternative facts.jpg
Alternative facts.jpg [ 207.85 KiB | Viewed 1075 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:44 pm 
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:rotfl: great meme!!

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 12:42 am 
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I read an article about Trump's tweeting habits. I think that may have changed my mind on the 'level of discourse' conversation re: the wisdom of repeating the 'Lock Him Up' chant (although I still think the booing was an OK way for people to let their opinions known). I never want another president who is so... undisciplined/unable to control themselves, so belligerent, callow, and crass. I would never like another top executive in this country who has time to tweet 8,000x in one month (and still get in plenty of golf). Certainly no decent CEO worth their salt would behave in such a way an still have his job. The lack of attention to detail, the spelling errors, the absence of or playing (very) loosely with facts. The retweets from White Supremacy & Conspiracy websites.. just.. no. Not ever again. It has to stop. Nevermore.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's America
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 1:36 pm 
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Trump gets booed at UFC event. "This should be his crowd."


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