Trump's America

The place for measured discourse about politics and current events, including developments in science and medicine.
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Primula Baggins
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Re: Trump's America

Post by Primula Baggins »

Argh.

Argh argh argh.

My Lutheran church has a member, a long-time, well-beloved and strongly valued member, who is Jewish. Her husband is a member, and he participates in her synagogue as far as is appropriate, as she does in our church. I don't think either of them compromises any of their beliefs, and I know they aren't expected to. As I think I've said before, she attends services but doesn't participate in the creed (the spoken statement of faith) or in communion; she leaves before communion and sets up the coffee and cookies (basically a Lutheran sacrament, but not officially so :P ).

We all love each other. We all live together. We all respect each other. What is so hard?
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
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River
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Re: Trump's America

Post by River »

I think it's a matter of exposure. If your only experience with Jews is the most vile corners of social media, you're going to have some really screwed up ideas about Jews. If your only experience with foreigners is through the news, you're going to have a really screwed up idea about foreigners in general. Same with the reality of living in a city, or traveling abroad, or the US-Mexico border. Case in point: I travel frequently to the Balkans to visit in-laws. I've been making these trips for over a decade now. The fighting in the 90's had been over for years by the time I made my first trip. I have sometimes felt dazed and confused but I've never felt unsafe. Thing is though, for most Americans, the story of the Balkans ends with the NATO bombing with an occasional epilogue about ongoing tension and weird **** with Kosovo. So, to this day, when I go on one of these trips, I get asked by well-meaning people whether or not it's safe. I try not to roll my eyes. Sometimes, I even succeed.

Another example: my mom occasionally goes to Africa to teach medical students and residents and generally help out. She goes to places like Ghana and Kenya, where the medical systems are developed to the point where the lessons she has to teach would stick (i.e., people can get their cancers taken out). She wouldn't recommend driving but otherwise she's never felt unsafe and, when she goes on these trips, she's basically living in the cities the hospitals are in. She's going to the markets. She's socializing with the staff. She's growling at students and pimping residents. Recently, she was visiting me and ended up talking to a coworker's husband. He was all over Africa while he was in military. He thinks Africa's the most dangerous place ever. These are reflections of the places he went, just as my mom's impressions are of the places she went.

One would think the vast wealth of information available over the internet and the connections made possible through social media would bridge some of these gaps between perceptions/general fears of the unknown and the realities but apparently that's not happening.
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The Only Whistler
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Re: Trump's America

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:bang:
Last edited by The Only Whistler on Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:17 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Trump's America

Post by Sunsilver »

To quote a favourite character we all know and love, "Well there's an eye-opener, and no mistake!" (No, not referring to your membership in Gab, but the other content of your post.)

Glad you felt comfortable enough to come here and post your thoughts, Whistler. Up until a few days ago, I had never heard of Gab, so had no idea what it was.

I think we are all to quick to tar and feather people without getting our facts right first of all. And there is SO much misinformation and propaganda out there on the internet and even in mainstream media that we NEED to do that before posting, reposting or even forming an opinion.
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Voronwë the Faithful
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Re: Trump's America

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Thank you, Whistler.
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Re: Trump's America

Post by Frelga »

Eleven people were killed and your takeaway is that your social media may be affected?
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The Only Whistler
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Re: Trump's America

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:bang:
Last edited by The Only Whistler on Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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yovargas
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Re: Trump's America

Post by yovargas »

The “mainstream” social media networks claim to believe in free speech, but they do not. Gab actually does, and that is why people find it so shocking.
I am a bit disappointed to have to say this on this board but, private entities such as Facebook, twitter, or Gab choosing not to allow the spread of bigoted propaganda on their own platforms is not an attack on free speech. I fully support the rights of people like this to say they're awful, hateful ideas, but they cannot expect that the right to say them using privately owned tools created by private individuals. Let them find their own tools and their own resources to spread their filth.
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Re: Trump's America

Post by Cerin »

I also had not known about Gab. Thank you, Whistler, for sharing your perspective on the matter.
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Voronwë the Faithful
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Re: Trump's America

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

I had never heard of Gab before this horrific incident, and since it happened, I have only heard the very one-sided discussion of it that Whistler mentioned. I too appreciate getting a different perspective about it from someone that I know and respect.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
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Re: Trump's America

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:bang:
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River
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Re: Trump's America

Post by River »

Can't Torba and his allies build their own platform? I'm sure it's expensive, but if there's a real desire/need there should be the money, right?

I think people often forget that the internet as we know it is almost completely privatized. The service providers, the hardware, the software, all of it belongs to corporate entities. They've got no obligation to anyone but those who give them money. This has some obvious drawbacks, like if a total scumbag uses your product to promote their scumminess and turns your product radioactive and no one wants anything to do with it for any reason and won't even take your money for use of infrastructure, you're hosed. On the other hand, if you can convince people to invest, you can build your own infrastructure and then you're no longer at the mercy of the likes of GoDaddy for servers.
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Cerin
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Re: Trump's America

Post by Cerin »

yovargas wrote: I am a bit disappointed to have to say this on this board but, private entities such as Facebook, twitter, or Gab choosing not to allow the spread of bigoted propaganda on their own platforms is not an attack on free speech. I fully support the rights of people like this to say they're awful, hateful ideas, but they cannot expect that the right to say them using privately owned tools created by private individuals. Let them find their own tools and their own resources to spread their filth.
Censorship could be called an attack on free speech (after all, they are limiting speech), but in this case it doesn't violate the Constitution, because the First Amendment only applies to the government restricting speech. However, with an entity as large and influential as Facebook, the concept of censorship becomes extremely troubling in its implications.
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The Only Whistler
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Re: Trump's America

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:bang:
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Voronwë the Faithful
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Re: Trump's America

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

I think it is somehow fitting that the colors of that poster go very well with the colors of this website. :love:
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Re: Trump's America

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:bang:
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Re: Trump's America

Post by River »

I agree with Cerin.

It might be time to start thinking of social media platforms as public utilities or some such and regulating accordingly. But, if the political will to do so does not (yet) exist, it would be better for Gab and other like-minded companies to stop whining and direct their energy towards figuring out how to host themselves (a server coop, maybe, I dunno, I'm just spit-balling) and buying some lobbyists the politicians will listen to.
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Re: Trump's America

Post by Sunsilver »

My friend who lives in Detroit attended a memorial service for those killed at the synagogue. In the middle of saying Kaddish for the dead, she started to cry. A woman came a put her arms around her to comfort her.

Later, the two of them got talking. The woman is a Muslim.

This gives my heart hope.
When the night has been too lonely, and the road has been too long,
And you think that love is only for the lucky and the strong,
Just remember in the winter far beneath the bitter snows,
Lies the seed, that with the sun's love, in the spring becomes The Rose.
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Re: Trump's America

Post by Frelga »

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status ... 2245301248
The Nigerian army posted a video of Trump's speech (where he said troops should consider it a firearm if migrants throw rocks) to justify shooting 45 demonstrators, BuzzFeed reports. https://t.co/VqEwJZmKKS
Eta here's the NYT link, if BuzzFeed doesn't do it for you.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/02/worl ... rocks.html
If there was anything that depressed him more than his own cynicism, it was that quite often it still wasn't as cynical as real life.

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Primula Baggins
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Re: Trump's America

Post by Primula Baggins »

That's appalling, Frelga. :( Words have consequences. I wish I could believe that our president isn't happy about this one.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
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