What to do about Saudi Arabia?

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Túrin Turambar
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What to do about Saudi Arabia?

Post by Túrin Turambar »

By now I am sure most of you will have heard that King Abdullah bin Abdulaziz of Saudi Arabia has died, and been eulogised by Western leaders:
US President Barack Obama expressed his personal sympathies, and those of the American people, on Abdullah's death.

"As a leader, he was always candid and had the courage of his convictions. One of those convictions was his steadfast and passionate belief in the importance of the US-Saudi relationship as a force for stability and security in the Middle East and beyond," he said.

Vice-President Joe Biden tweeted that he would lead a delegation to Riyadh to pay respects.

UK Prime Minister David Cameron said Abdullah would be remembered for his "commitment to peace and for strengthening understanding between faiths".
Yesterday the Union Jack at Whitehall flew at half-mast in Abdullah’s honour. IMF leader Christine Lagarde suggested that the king had been a promoter of women’s rights, albeit a ‘gradual’ one.

Certainly the late king did maintain a policy of consistent friendship with the West, and in fairness, he did make a few steps towards the emancipation of women (eg. allowing them to study at a tertiary level on a limited basis, and sending two female athletes to the London Olympics). But the fact remains that he presided over one of the absolute worst regimes in the world, a regime that will continue unchanged under the rule of his half-brother Salman.

The massive list of Saudi human rights violations hardly needs repeating. The regime imposes the death penalty for crimes such as apostasy, homosexuality, adultery and practicing witchcraft, including through stoning to death and crucifixion. Rape victims can be publically flogged for licentiousness. A blogger who made comments critical of Islam is now facing 1,000 lashes, ten years’ imprisonment and a fine of a million Saudi riayls. Women are still not allowed to drive (although King Abdullah did try to overturn this), and women who have been caught driving have been prosecuted under the country’s anti-terrorism laws (ironically, women can fly planes). The evidence of women remains at half the weight in the court of the evidence of men.

Even though Saudi Arabia formally abolished slavery in 1962, the regime is known to be complicit in human trafficking, and the 9 million foreign workers in the country doing manual labour and other menial tasks, mostly people from the third world, have virtually no rights and no legal protection. Thousands of women and girls are kept in conditions of sexual slavery. They are routinely subjected to the violence of the legal system – in 2011 a Sudanese man was beheaded for practicing black magic.

There are local elections, but political parties are banned, the media is censored and the country remains under the kleptocratic absolute rule of the sons and grandsons of Ibn Saud. Practically every position of power and influence is held by a man of the House of Saud, and there is no shortage of them – Ibn Saud had 22 wives and 45 sons, and his sons have followed suit. Between them they have accumulated over twenty billion dollars.

It is hard to imagine that the leader of regime like this would have been fêted so widely in the democratic world had that regime not been Saudi Arabia. It is the great exception to our human rights agenda, and our support for the regime our greatest hypocrisy.

But what can we do? If the House of Saud embargoes oil exports to the west, we’re screwed. And better to have an ally in the War on Terror in Riyadh than an enemy, even though the House of Saud funnels money into extremist organisations as part of the quite-literal unholy alliance with the Wahabist clerics that keeps it in power.

We have had some unpleasant allies in the past, out of necessity. Stalin’s USSR, for example. But is this really a case where we need to do the same? Maybe it is.
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Re: What to do about Saudi Arabia?

Post by River »

As long as we depend on fossil fuels for energy and petrochemicals for just about everything else, we are going to have to play ball with the House of Saud and some other unsavory types.
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Re: What to do about Saudi Arabia?

Post by Impenitent »

My husband and I enjoyed a good rant about this in the car today after the news came through that flags were at half-mast over Whitehall. Saudia Arabia and the Saud family get a free pass because of their stranglehold on oil. The hypocrisy of this enrages and sickens me in turns, but as River stated above, until we shake our coattails free of fossil fuels, world governments will smile the omnipresent smile of hypocrites.
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Re: What to do about Saudi Arabia?

Post by JewelSong »

At some point in the not-too-distant future, a viable alternative to fossil fuels will be discovered. And when that happens, things will change very quickly.

I got my first home computer a little over 20 years ago, with a 1200 baud external modem. There was no internet as we know it. Email was seen as a fad. On-line gaming was purely text-based (remember MUDS and MOOS?) There were some companies that had an on-line presence, but you had to load in their DVDs and connect to their server, The whole idea of using a home computer as an every-day tool for shopping, news, communications, games, everything...was only a fantastic notion.

It is merely 2 decades from that time and everything - EVERYTHING - has changed. Some companies have been quick to embrace the change and some have been slower. Some have been in denial.

I fully expect the same kind of thing to happen to Saudi Arabia and some of the other countries in the mid-East when (not IF, but when) a viable alternative to oil is put into play.

Because everything - EVERYTHING - will change.

I hope I am alive to see it, too.


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Re: What to do about Saudi Arabia?

Post by JewelSong »

At some point in the not-too-distant future, a viable alternative to fossil fuels will be discovered. And when that happens, things will change very quickly.

I got my first home computer a little over 20 years ago, with a 1200 baud external modem. There was no internet as we know it. Email was seen as a fad. On-line gaming was purely text-based (remember MUDS and MOOS?) There were some companies that had an on-line presence, but you had to load in their DVDs and connect to their server, The whole idea of using a home computer as an every-day tool for shopping, news, communications, games, everything...was only a fantastic notion.

It is merely 2 decades from that time and everything - EVERYTHING - has changed. Some companies have been quick to embrace the change and some have been slower. Some have been in denial.

I fully expect the same kind of thing to happen to Saudi Arabia and some of the other countries in the mid-East when (not IF, but when) a viable alternative to oil is put into play.

Because everything - EVERYTHING - will change.

I hope I am alive to see it, too.


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Re: What to do about Saudi Arabia?

Post by yovargas »

This was something that kept coming to mind when I'd hear some people say they opposed Obama's move to try and normalize relations with Cuba....
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I wanna throw my body in the river and drown
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Passdagas the Brown
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Re: What to do about Saudi Arabia?

Post by Passdagas the Brown »

Dp
Last edited by Passdagas the Brown on Sat Jan 24, 2015 4:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What to do about Saudi Arabia?

Post by Passdagas the Brown »

The Saudi regime does not have a stranglehold on US foreign policy exclusively (or even primarily) because of its role in the global oil market (though this is a very important reality that should be the focus of change for our energy policy). That's far too simplistic a narrative.

Our outsized friendship with the regime has far more to do with its policy towards Israel, which is, along with that of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan (and to a lesser but still significant extent, Egypt), the friendliest policy in the region. The Saudis also sit at the center of the Gulf Cooperation Council and the Arab League, both critical guarantors of security in the Arab world, and both of which play an important (if messy) role in maintaining Israeli security (and yes, the security of a significant though no longer mammoth chunk of that global petroleum supply, which has dramatically diversified in the last decade). So whilst the regime is a gross violator of human rights as it pertains to people within its borders (and the people of Bahrain...) it is an essential ally in the defense of the arguably most successful democracy in the region - Israel. For the US foreign policy establishment, oppressed Saudis are generally a regrettable but tolerable tradeoff for a secure Israel. And this doesn't even begin to address the broader issue of a strategic preference for Sunni leadership, as a counterbalance against the perceived Shiite-led opposition to the Israeli state (the core of which has been Iran, and it's main ally, Syria under Assad).

Frankly, I despise the Saudi system of governance and the human suffering it has caused. But I understand why they have remained a U.S. ally, and would be hard-pressed to change that dynamic were I to be President. Hopefully, the US can find more ways of putting pressure on them in regards to human rights and democracy in years to come, while not doing significant damage to the Saudi-Israeli security relationship.

And IMO, if the Saudi state experienced a significant democratic transition, it would have a huge positive impact on perceptions of the US and Israel in the world (especially in the MENA region), which could go a long way in enhancing Israeli and U.S. security.

And when the moral thing to do is married to a strong strategic rationale, you have a surefire winner. It's just going to take a lot of intestinal fortitude (and vision) from our next crop of leaders, in both the US and Saudi Arabia.
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Re: What to do about Saudi Arabia?

Post by Túrin Turambar »

Aside from Israel, there is also the regime's consistently-strong opposition to Al Qaeda and (now) Islamic State, and the fact that it keeps the holy sites of Mecca out of their hands. Of course, it ensures domestic buy-in for its pro-Western foreign policy by funnelling money into extremist organisations that spread radicalism among Muslims both in the Middle East and the Western world. It emerged that the Islamic studies centre at my university in Queensland was partially-funded by the House of Saud, showing just how far Riyadh's reach extends. It's truly a tangle.
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Re: What to do about Saudi Arabia?

Post by Passdagas the Brown »

That's all definitely a part of it, Lord_M, but the assistance against those terrorist organizations (and I would add the Shiite Hezbollah, and al Shabaab, as prominent members of that list) are added benefits to cooperating with Saudi Arabia, and not at the core of why the US maintains a very deep alliance with them. We had a strong alliance with the Saudis before either of those organizations became a threat.

Israeli security, particularly in relation to the Iran-Syria-Hezbollah threat, is the foundation.

And it will take fundamental changes in that nexus for US policy towards Saudi Arabia to meaningfully change.

The Saudis are very much like "Craster" in Game of Thrones. Despicable violators of human dignity that play a key role in keeping free people in the region safe...

But I can't wait for the day when Saudi Arabia is no longer so important. Then the gloves must come off.
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Re: What to do about Saudi Arabia?

Post by Passdagas the Brown »

I may have killed this thread by bringing in some of the actual strategic rationales behind Saudi Arabia's near "diplomatic immunity" when it comes to its human rights record. Sorry for doing that, but I believe it helps illuminate the issue. I find that a focus solely on Saudi Arabia's OPEC role obscures, rather than clarifies, the situation.
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Re: What to do about Saudi Arabia?

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

No need to apologize. You made a pertinent and valuable contribution. If no one else has anything to add that is on the rest of us, not you.

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Re: What to do about Saudi Arabia?

Post by yovargas »

Yeah, I don't think you killed anything, I just think it's too difficult a question with no good answer......
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I wanna throw my body in the river and drown
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Re: What to do about Saudi Arabia?

Post by Impenitent »

PtB, I think the thread is in hiatus not because of your contribution (which is quite right), but simply because there is nothing that can be done at this time about Saudi Arabia.
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Re: What to do about Saudi Arabia?

Post by Passdagas the Brown »

Probably true. It's a subject that inspires some serious fatalism!
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Re: What to do about Saudi Arabia?

Post by Impenitent »

True.

Sigh.
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