United Nations versus The Vatican

Post by **Alatar** » Thu Feb 06, 2014 4:05 pm

I'm surprised not to see a thread on this, its getting pretty major headlines over here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26044852

The UN has said that the Vatican should "immediately remove" all clergy who are known or suspected child abusers.

The UN watchdog for children's rights denounced the Holy See for adopting policies which allowed priests to sexually abuse thousands of children.

In a report, it also criticised Vatican attitudes towards homosexuality, contraception and abortion.

The Vatican responded by saying it would examine the report - but also accused its authors of interference.

A group representing the victims of abuse by priests in the US welcomed the report.

In its findings, the UN Committee on the Rights of the Child (CRC) said the Holy See should open its files on members of the clergy who had "concealed their crimes" so that they could be held accountable by the authorities.

Personally, I believe The Vatican should be transparent in this, particularly in response to the child abuse allegations. I understand that the accusations of homophobia are muddying the waters, with the Vatican claiming this impinges on religious freedom. However, I see no excuse for sheltering those bishops who knowingly moved sex offenders quietly from parish to parish.

Post by **JewelSong** » Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:28 am

I wanted to respond to this - I have read a little bit about it - but I am not sure what to say.

It really seems to me that the PtB of the RCC still really do not get it in regards to the horrific child abuse scandal.

This statement:

The Vatican responded by saying it would examine the report - but also accused its authors of interference.

just really says it all, IMHO.

For years - decades - people were discouraged, if not outright forbidden, to report cases of abuse to the authorities. The party line was that the church would take care of its own...and that the church must be protected.

That still seems to be the party line. In spite of everything.

It boggles my mind.

Post by **yovargas** » Fri Feb 07, 2014 1:02 pm

How is it that an organization widely known to have been protecting criminals isn't (to my knowledge?) under criminal investigation? Isn't protecting these criminals itself a crime?

Post by **Alatar** » Fri Feb 07, 2014 1:04 pm

There's some weird abstraction whereby the Vatican don't directly employ priests, they are actually employed by parishes or something. Sounds like a dodgy legal loophole to be honest.

Post by **jotnar** » Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:24 am

I have a slightly askance view of what is transpiring here. The UN is challenging a power base that is distinct from its auspices. The RCC has its own laws, own rules, own rationale; all distinct from the UN, which is this paragon of probity and virtue...

OK, sarcasm is most likely unwarranted, but the degree to which the UN, its Secretary General, its Security Council, and its General Council, are manipulative, manipulated, and shield criminals of the highest order (unless they aren't part of "the club") really should be contrasted with the RCC. And I confidently predict that neither comes out smelling of roses.

The RCC is an easy target, because it has its own "abnormal" doctrine, laws and punishments. It is little surprise that there is discordance between a religious institution and a secular body, each competing for authority.

The RCC "protects" members guilty of sexual crimes, but so does secular society. Has nobody seen Conspiracy of Silence? The Catholics have become easy targets.

Post by **Alatar** » Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:30 am

I don't understand why one would justify the other. There's no "but".

The RCC "protects" members guilty of sexual crimes

End of story. That is a crime and needs to be punished/rectified.

Then we can turn our attention to the next Human Rights violation. China anyone? Russia? Guantanamo?

Post by **JewelSong** » Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:06 am

The RCC "protects" members guilty of sexual crimes

While at the same time, purporting to be doing "God's work." And people who wanted to report the crimes were told that they would be "hurting the Church" if they did so. They were also told that "the Church would take care of it." Which it did by protecting/hiding the abusers and causing the victims to feel guilty.

The Church is not the same as a secular organisation and by its own lights, should be held to a higher standard.

Instead, it hid behind the Cross, so to speak.

Jesus weeps.

Post by **eborr** » Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:10 am

One does not justify the other, however Jotnar makes a valid point regarding the accuser and the motivations behind the accusation.

Post by **JewelSong** » Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:24 pm

If the UN is the organisation to finally call out the RCC on the decades of abuse and cover-ups and ruination of the lives of thousands of children and their families, so be it.

I don't care what their motivations are, frankly...or whether or not the UN is guiltless. The abuse of power that the RCC has demonstrated and their continued denial, in the name of Jesus Christ, is sickening.

Post by **axordil** » Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:09 pm

The Lollards--who believed sacraments should only be performed by the virtuous--were deemed heretics, as I recall.

As I've said elsewhere, we can't wait for white knights, and wasting time prioritizing evils allows all of those evils to continue longer. You start where you can and you do what you can. The perfect here is not only the enemy of the good, but an evil unto itself.