Separate, equal, reprise

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nerdanel
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Separate, equal, reprise

Post by nerdanel »

I thought someone else would've started a thread on this, but it's been almost a week and we don't have one yet, so here it is.

I don't really have more than kneejerk thoughts. And I need to rant. So here goes:

- This idea remains pathetic regardless of whether whites or blacks are behind it. I understand that this idea has some support from blacks who want black educators to control the black education of their black students. Jeez, that's a great idea! And while we're at it, we should have black bus drivers driving black buses, and black salespeople controlling sales to black shoppers, and black Starbuckses serving (black) coffee to black coffee-drinkers, and...there's just unlimited potential here, folks.

- The very idea that people are going to learn better only around other people of their own race is very frustrating. The grains of truth in it - (1) that minorities sometimes have unique cultural issues that minority teachers/administrations may be better prepared to address and (2) that learning might be facilitated when racism distractions are eliminated - can (obviously) only be eliminated in the long-term by integration. This proposed back-to-the-future disadvantages everyone in the long-term; if all you deal with is "people like you" from a young age, it will be harder to see and deal with "others" as fellow members of the same community.

- It certainly is DARN convenient for all the white middle-to-upper-class "yay, keep those minorities away from us!" types who ACTUALLY provided the needed votes and support for this bill [see bolded text below for who got this bill passed], that there was one black face to plaster on this legislation. Emphasis on the "one" - since this progressive, 21st century state has a whopping total of ONE black state legislator. It remains an open question, then, whether blacks who do not favor segregation could be elected in Nebraska.

- Won't someone think of the Asians? Now, I understand that there are only 3 percent Asians in this student population, but if there's going to be black schools and Hispanic schools and white schools, then I maintain there should be Asian schools too. After all, however can Asians learn, if they do not get taken to Asian bus-stops by Asian parents, get on buses driven by Asian bus drivers, and head to their Asian schools in which they are taught by Asian teachers? I guess the Asian kids just won't be going to school, then. What's that, you say? They can go to the black schools and the white schools and the Hispanic schools? You mean they can learn with people who are a different race than they are? :shock: What a radical idea! I wish we had thought of that before.

OH WAIT.

[PS I understand that the calm, reasoned response is, "There's already a spot on the docket of the federal district court in Nebraska for this case." Yep, but the courts stepped in on this one forty+ years ago - the idea ["segregation is bad!"] should have caught on with the general population by now. Why are we still talking about this?]
New York Times wrote:OMAHA, April 14 — Ernie Chambers is Nebraska's only African-American state senator, a man who has fought for causes including the abolition of capital punishment and the end of apartheid in South Africa. A magazine writer once described him as the "angriest black man in Nebraska."

Ernie Chambers, the only African-American in the Nebraska Legislature, was a major force behind a law enacted this week that calls for dividing the Omaha school district into three districts defined largely by race.

He was also a driving force behind a measure passed by the Legislature on Thursday and signed into law by the governor that calls for dividing the Omaha public schools into three racially identifiable districts, one largely black, one white and one mostly Hispanic.

The law, which opponents are calling state-sponsored segregation, has thrown Nebraska into an uproar, prompting fierce debate about the value of integration versus what Mr. Chambers calls a desire by blacks to control a school district in which their children are a majority.

Civil rights scholars call the legislation the most blatant recent effort in the nation to create segregated school systems or, as in Omaha, to resegregate districts that had been integrated by court order. Omaha ran a mandatory busing program from 1976 to 1999.

"These efforts to resegregate schools by race keep popping up in various parts of the country," said Gary Orfield, director of the Civil Rights Project at Harvard, adding that such programs skate near or across the line of what is constitutionally permissible. "I hear about something like this every few months, but usually when districts hear the legal realities from civil rights lawyers, they tend to back off their plans."

Nebraska's attorney general, Jon Bruning, said in a letter to a state senator that preliminary scrutiny had led him to believe that the law could violate the federal Constitution's equal protection clause, and that he expected legal challenges.

The debate here began when the Omaha district, which educates most of the state's minority students, moved last June to absorb a string of largely white schools that were within the Omaha city limits but were controlled by suburban or independent districts.

"Multiple school districts in Omaha stratify our community," John J. Mackiel, the Omaha schools superintendent, said last year. "They create inequity, and they compromise the opportunity for a genuine sense of community."

Omaha school authorities and business leaders marketed the expansion under the slogan, "One City, One School District." The plan, the district said, would create a more equitable tax base and foster integration through magnet programs to be set up in largely white schools on Omaha's western edge that would attract minority students.

The district had no plans to renew busing, but some suburban parents feared that it might. The suburban districts rebelled, and the unicameral Legislature drew up a measure to blunt the district's expansion.

The bill contained provisions creating a "learning community" to include 11 school districts in the Omaha area operating with a common tax levy while maintaining current borders. It required districts to work together to promote voluntary integration.

But the legislation changed radically with a two-page amendment by Mr. Chambers that carved the Omaha schools into racially identifiable districts, a move he told his colleagues would allow black educators to control schools in black areas.

Nebraska's 49-member, nonpartisan Legislature approved the measure by a vote of 31 to 16, with Mr. Chambers's support and with the votes of 30 conservative lawmakers from affluent white suburbs and ranching counties with a visceral dislike of the Omaha school bureaucracy. Gov. Dave Heineman, a Republican facing a tough primary fight, said he did not consider the measure segregationist and immediately signed it.

Dr. Mackiel, the Omaha superintendent, said the school board was "committed to protecting young people's constitutional rights."

"If that includes litigation, then that certainly is a consideration," Dr. Mackiel said.

Some of Nebraska's richest and most powerful residents have also questioned the legislation, including the billionaire investor Warren Buffett as well as David Sokol, the chief executive of MidAmerican Energy Holdings Company, which employs thousands in Nebraska and Iowa.

"This is going to make our state a laughingstock, and it's going to increase racial tensions and segregation," Mr. Sokol said in an interview.

The Omaha district has 46,700 students, 44 percent of them white, 32 percent black, 21 percent Hispanic and 3 percent Asian or Native American. The suburban systems that surround it range in size from the Millard Public School District, with about 20,000 students, 9 percent of whom are members of minorities, to the Bennington district, with 704 students, 4 percent of whom are members of minorities.
Parent reaction is divided. Darold Bauer, a professional fund-raiser who has three children in Millard schools, said he was pleased that the law had eliminated the threat of busing, although he said he was not thrilled about sharing a common tax levy with the Omaha schools.

"What this law does is protect the boundaries of my district," said Mr. Bauer, who is white. "All the districts in the area are now required to work together on an integration plan, and I'm fine with that, because my kids won't be bused."

Brenda J. Council, a prominent black lawyer whose niece and nephew attend Omaha's North High School, said of the law, "I'm adamantly opposed because it'll only institutionalize racial isolation."

Whether the law goes unchallenged is unclear. "We believe the state may face serious risk due to the potential constitutional problems," Attorney General Bruning said in his letter.

But Senator Chambers, a 68-year-old former barber who earned a law degree after his election to the Legislature in 1970, was unmoved. He lists his occupation as "defender of the downtrodden," and suggests that is precisely what he is doing.

"Several years ago I began discussing in my community the possibility of carving our area out of Omaha Public Schools and establishing a district over which we would have control," Mr. Chambers said during the debate on the floor of the Legislature. "My intent is not to have an exclusionary system, but we, meaning black people, whose children make up the vast majority of the student population, would control."

During an interview in his office, Mr. Chambers took time out to answer calls questioning the plan. He told several people bluntly that they were misinformed, but he remained polite.

"You call me anytime, whether you agree with me or not," he signed off one conversation.

He acknowledged that he had nursed a latent fury with the Omaha district since enduring the taunting of schoolmates during classroom readings of "Little Black Sambo" when he attended during the 1940's. He also accused the district of returning to segregated neighborhood schools when it ended busing in 1999, although no high school is more than 48 percent black.

Other black leaders in Omaha criticized the new law.

"This is a disaster," said Ben Gray, a television news producer and co-chairman of the African-American Achievement Council, a group of volunteers who mentor black students. "Throughout our time in America, we've had people who continuously fought for equality, and from Brown vs. Board of Education, we know that separate is not equal. We cannot go back to segregating our schools."
I won't just survive
Oh, you will see me thrive
Can't write my story
I'm beyond the archetype
I won't just conform
No matter how you shake my core
'Cause my roots, they run deep, oh

When, when the fire's at my feet again
And the vultures all start circling
They're whispering, "You're out of time,"
But still I rise
This is no mistake, no accident
When you think the final nail is in, think again
Don't be surprised, I will still rise
nerdanel
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Post by nerdanel »

Separate idea, so placing in a separate post:

Of course, this is not quite as bright-line as saying, "Only whites can go to school A, and only blacks can go to school B." In carving out district boundaries with attention to race, it actually bears a curious resemblance to majority-minority single member districts, for voting purposes.

The rationale behind such districts is of course that, particularly where minorities try for decades to get "their" candidates elected, and yet the successful candidates for local and state election remain obdurately all-white based on at-large voting, such districts allow minorities more full political participation by allowing "their" candidates to have a fighting chance.

On one hand, this reasoning has always seemed reprehensible to me. Is that saying that only an Asian candidate could represent my interests? [and would I need an Indian candidate, or could a Chinese or Japanese candidate do as well?] That only a black candidate could represent the interests of a black voter? And so on? Are white candidates only representing white interests, then? May they dedicate special attention to the interests of white voters? Or do white representatives have to cater to all of us, while minority representatives focus on the interests of minority voters? (That doesn't seem quite right.) And what about whites who live in majority-minority districts? Can a minority representative adequately cater to their interests? If yes, then why is the converse not true? And if no, how is that fair to them?

Then again: all this purported colorblindness is at some level denying the realities of racism in America. And I think there is value in facilitating minority representation on City Councils and state legislatures that otherwise would continue for decades into the future without any, or many, such representatives.

So, I don't know the answer to that discussion either. But I wonder if there are any valid parallels/analogies to the school situation, IF the teaching staff and administration of a school system with a substantial black or Hispanic minority is dominated by whites - and if those whites are acting in a manner consistently adverse to minority interests. (Note, of course, that I am not saying that either of those two things are true in Omaha.)
I won't just survive
Oh, you will see me thrive
Can't write my story
I'm beyond the archetype
I won't just conform
No matter how you shake my core
'Cause my roots, they run deep, oh

When, when the fire's at my feet again
And the vultures all start circling
They're whispering, "You're out of time,"
But still I rise
This is no mistake, no accident
When you think the final nail is in, think again
Don't be surprised, I will still rise
ToshoftheWuffingas
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Post by ToshoftheWuffingas »

Hi nerdanel. This cropped up in the Symposium about a week ago and I posted something which very inadequately agreed with you.

Doesn't this create or boost the idea that your racial group is the most important thing about you? I may be white but I don't think that being white is anywhere near the most important thing about me. Yet a law like this would define where I went to school and who my social group would be purely on the colour of my skin.
Moreover it makes it difficult to meet and socialise with people from the other groups.
Those sorts of divisions in Northern Ireland, in that case over religion, bolstered a fractured dysfunctional society.



Our Members of Parliament represent all their constituents whether they voted for them or not albeit with their own opinions and following their party discipline. Black MPs represent their white constituents and vice versa. White electorates here elect Black MPs. London voters elected an Indian MP to represent them before the First World War.
Anything that artificially divides a society against itself is daft.
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Maria
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Post by Maria »

My kids liked their gifted class a lot better when it was taught by a teacher who was herself gifted and had come up through the school system that way....
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Cerin
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Post by Cerin »

I don't know what to say. We've come a long way, baby. Not.

It'd be interesting, though, to see what this Supreme Court would have to say about it.
Jnyusa
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Post by Jnyusa »

My kids liked their gifted class a lot better when it was taught by a teacher who was herself gifted and had come up through the school system that way....

Yes, my kids really suffered at one point when they got a really stupid teacher for a gifted class. But that's because the intelligence of the teacher has direct bearing on the presentation of the material. There's no reason to suppose that race would have similar bearing on how one explains multiplication, for example.

I think that part of the underlying problem here, one of the factors leading to this outcome, is the fact that education theory in general has moved away from content-based evaluation and toward psychological-based evaluation. Teachers don't learn to teach math by learning math, they learn to teach math by taking psychology courses on the impact of age, race, gender, perceptual biases, etc. of students. This is very nice, I suppose, but if the teacher doesn't know math then he/she is not going to be able to teach it, no matter how much he/she knows about the learning styles of different people. My observation is that the biggest problem we have in classrooms right now is that a lot of teachers simply don't know the material they are trying to teach.

This of course creates the perfect opening for school districts that want to jimmy things around based on race, gender, etc. The children from higher socio-economic classes get the information they need from sources other than the classroom, so the deficiency is not as apparent when it comes time to get into college, get a job, etc.

Jn
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Post by Erunáme »

if the teacher doesn't know math then he/she is not going to be able to teach it, no matter how much he/she knows about the learning styles of different people.

Of course the opposite is if the teacher doesn't know about teaching and learning styles, then he/she is not going to be able to teach it, no matter how much he/she knows about math.

Over the years I've had more than a few teachers who were obviously very intelligent, but didn't have a clue as to how to impart that knowledge to their students. Whenever a student would tell my Physics of Music and Sound professor that he didn't understand something, the professor would explain it again in the exact same manner which resulted in the student still not understanding. The professor would then become a bit exasperated, but what else could he expect when all he did was repeat himself?

There has to be a balance between knowing subject matter and child development. Also the child development/education classes should be geared towards subject matter, though that would cause a problem with scheduling classes as there would need to be quite a few of them. Some of what I learned in my education classes about the way a child's brain develops, etc, was very helpful as it has allowed me to understand why children do what they do. It helps me not expect them to behave and reason as an adult does. But, a lot of my time (and money) was wasted in the education classes as they only dealt with the general subjects that dealt with reading. No professor had a clue about teaching music and it was up to me to try to adapt what they were teaching to my area (much of the time it did not work at all and I had to fake it just to please the teacher. I knew what I was coming up with would never work in a music classroom). It was an absolute pain and I often felt like the music students were trying to teach each other how to deal with the requirements for projects. I'm getting off track here in a rant :P. Luckily the music department did very well at providing classes that taught us how to teach music while also requiring all the knowledge based classes...and the majority of my fellow students did seem to possess knowledge of the subject. I didn't see this so much in the general education students. I'm not so sure they had very many classes dealing with how to teach their subjects, especially math. Mostly it was geared toward reading. It's only my perception, but at least half of the people I took general education classes with didn't seem like they were going to be very good teachers...especially the atheletes. Here in Texas one can't just be a coach. You have to have a back up subject and many of them choose history or health. I don't think it's that helpful to require coaches to teach another subject as obviously, coaching is their passion and the thing they will most concentrate on (oops ended a sentence with a preposition. Sorry Prim! :P).

Also, while I understand the good of having a well-rounded education, I also feel a lot of my time and especially money was wasted having to take literature, sociology or government classes. I already studied Shakespeare in high school. I also studied many different works in all of my English classes that were required since 7th grade. I've also had to repeatedly learn the same history throughout junior high and high school, yet I'm required to keep this up when I go to university. Again, I can see the virtues of a well-rounded education, but there were so many times that I couldn't concentrate on the focus of my degree because I had to spend hours reading or writing for a class that didn't deal with music or education (and with the history and math courses, it was mostly a repeat of what I learned in high school). To me students would be better off being able to spend more time on their core subject. I should have been able to spend more time on my music homework or practicing my trumpet. Also, if the outside requirements were cut back somewhat, that would open up more room for content specific classes which would only make a better teacher in the long run.

Sorry for the rambling. I went to a good education school with generally intelligent students, but even there there were problems. I can only imagine what it's like at other universities.
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Post by Jnyusa »

I already studied Shakespeare in high school. I also studied many different works in all of my English classes that were required since 7th grade. I've also had to repeatedly learn the same history throughout junior high and high school, yet I'm required to keep this up when I go to university.

There's an horrific redundancy in curricula, partly because we have no national standards for what should be taught and how and when it should be taught.

It drives me crazy when I teach undergraduates, because some people in the class can name every river in the world and others think that Hawaii is located inside a little box just off the coast of California. I had a (senior) student ask me once if there really is a line on the ground at the equator! And I had another (senior) class where only ten students out of 30 were able to identify the United States on a map of North and South America. Some of my (sophomore) students can do calculus and some can't multiply using a decimal point.

If we had national standards we could eliminate a lot of the redundancy and then there would be time to teach teachers everything they need to know - both content and method.

Jn
A fool's paradise is a wise man's hell.
Erunáme
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Post by Erunáme »

Jnyusa wrote:It drives me crazy when I teach undergraduates, because some people in the class can name every river in the world and others think that Hawaii is located inside a little box just off the coast of California. I had a (senior) student ask me once if there really is a line on the ground at the equator! And I had another (senior) class where only ten students out of 30 were able to identify the United States on a map of North and South America. Some of my (sophomore) students can do calculus and some can't multiply using a decimal point.
Some of that is really sad....sounds a lot like Jay Walking on the Tonight Show.

I can't do calculus though. :P I stopped at Trigonometry (and only did that so I could take Honors Physics).
If we had national standards we could eliminate a lot of the redundancy and then there would be time to teach teachers everything they need to know - both content and method.
That would be the best way, but I doubt it will ever happen...especially as there are some states that want to teach creationism.
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Post by Impenitent »

Putting aside all the arguments above (with which I agree), there is also this: Segregate people into educational ghettos, and you can kiss goodbye the idea of America as a melting pot.

Oh yeah! Let's all break up into tribes, shall we? And then, of course, peace will reign.
Last edited by Impenitent on Sun Apr 23, 2006 4:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Túrin Turambar
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Post by Túrin Turambar »

Touching on what Jyn argued, I think there’s a problem in education and academia nowadays that tries to pigeonhole people by things like race and gender. When you argue, for example, that half of your faculty must be female and a third must be non-white, you imply that, firstly, female or non-white teachers are going to offer a different way of teaching and one that is most friendly to female or non-white students, and secondly, that any one female or non-white person can stand in as a representative of their group. There are a lot of black people, women, or gay people that I would trust to argue my point of view in any one situation more than a lot of heterosexual white men. Likewise, I’d be far more concerned with a person’s ability to teach, knowledge and personality than their gender or race. Finally, I believe that the best for of diversity is diversity of opinion and belief.

In the end, I’d like to see distinctions of race matter not at all in all circles. While this sort of thing is going on, that won’t be the case. I’d also like to see differences of gender matter as little as possible, even though there will probably always be more professional men than professional women simply because women are the ones who will more often than not take on the bulk of child-rearing in a family.
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