Lalaith, it wasn't meant for you, but was a general remark to everyone who "hates politics".
The only way to make politics better is to get involved, and that usually means more than voting. Although nowadays just voting is more than some people are willing to do. There are millions of people who say, "They're all the same, so I'm not voting" and everyone who says that is making things worse.
I've never run for office, but I've been involved in different ways. If only the people who like dirty politics get involved, then politics will always be dirty.
Now it has come to the point that no one is surprised when a pollitician is accused of wrongdoing - everyone assumes that's why he went into politics in the first place.
And everyone I met running for office was doing it because they wanted to do right.
It is very seldom that a politician can do everything he promised: he gets to city hall or the capital of the province or Ottawa and reality hits.
Contraception and Religious Freedom (and related issues)
I still think we are defining "politics" differently.
If politics to you is how the system works, then yes, I am interested in how the system works. What Lali is doing is absolutely what every citizen should do, and I would venture it shows that she believes in, and supports, her government. I also tend to participate in our governmental system... I actually ran for (and won, although that's not too impressive) a very small "office". I was precinct committeeman for my voting precinct, and me with a night job and two toddlers at the time.
I wanted to help, and there was a need. If that is politics, I'm all for it.
But for me, "politics" is more a separate process of individual people trying to manipulate a system for personal gain. Yov said it better:
If politics to you is how the system works, then yes, I am interested in how the system works. What Lali is doing is absolutely what every citizen should do, and I would venture it shows that she believes in, and supports, her government. I also tend to participate in our governmental system... I actually ran for (and won, although that's not too impressive) a very small "office". I was precinct committeeman for my voting precinct, and me with a night job and two toddlers at the time.
I wanted to help, and there was a need. If that is politics, I'm all for it.
But for me, "politics" is more a separate process of individual people trying to manipulate a system for personal gain. Yov said it better:
If THAT is politics, and if that is what folks are referring to when they say "I hate politics" (and I think many of them are), then add me to that list. I've never been much of a fan of people manipulating others in pursuit of personal power.yovargas wrote:When I hear "politics" in the context mentioned here, I think of people playing crappy power games for the sake of getting power (eg. saying whatever people wanna hear to become more popular), not of conscientious people with differing views trying to work together.
Last edited by anthriel on Wed Feb 29, 2012 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"What do you fear, lady?" Aragorn asked.
"A cage," Éowyn said. "To stay behind bars, until use and old age accept them, and all chance of doing great deeds is gone beyond recall or desire.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
"A cage," Éowyn said. "To stay behind bars, until use and old age accept them, and all chance of doing great deeds is gone beyond recall or desire.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
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Voronwë the Faithful
- At the intersection of here and now
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There are a lot of different ways to make things better. For some people, being actively involved in "politics" is the best way. For others, it might be focusing on teaching their children to be loving, caring members of the community. Neither are "better"; both are equally necessary.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
Voronwë the Faithful wrote:There are a lot of different ways to make things better. For some people, being actively involved in "politics" is the best way. For others, it might be focusing on teaching their children to be loving, caring members of the community. Neither are "better"; both are equally necessary.
(Okay, maybe that particular emoticon is frowned upon in Lasto. OOPS!!)
I meant... ummm... well written, Sir V.
"What do you fear, lady?" Aragorn asked.
"A cage," Éowyn said. "To stay behind bars, until use and old age accept them, and all chance of doing great deeds is gone beyond recall or desire.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
"A cage," Éowyn said. "To stay behind bars, until use and old age accept them, and all chance of doing great deeds is gone beyond recall or desire.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
Here's what get's me. When supporters of party A spend an awful lot of time and effort to address problem Z, only to shift to a different position when party B introduces an idea that even they (party A supporters) agree would help aleviate problem Z.
When party A offers these sorts of solutions * instead, politics goes beyond ridiculousness to outright insanity.
* sort of getting back to the bulk of the thread, the video discusses the Virginia State Republican bill that if it had become law as written, would have forced women contemplating abortion to have a vaginal ultrasound -- that is, the wand is inserted inside the vagina when making the ultrasound image.
To be fair, as of yesterday, Virginia has removed the clause legally mandating the invasive (some liken it to "state rape") procedure (see here). However similar bills are already passed or still before the legislature in other Republican controlled states, such as Alabama (which has passed two readings already with no sign of an amendment.)
sigh
When party A offers these sorts of solutions * instead, politics goes beyond ridiculousness to outright insanity.
* sort of getting back to the bulk of the thread, the video discusses the Virginia State Republican bill that if it had become law as written, would have forced women contemplating abortion to have a vaginal ultrasound -- that is, the wand is inserted inside the vagina when making the ultrasound image.
To be fair, as of yesterday, Virginia has removed the clause legally mandating the invasive (some liken it to "state rape") procedure (see here). However similar bills are already passed or still before the legislature in other Republican controlled states, such as Alabama (which has passed two readings already with no sign of an amendment.)
sigh
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Primula Baggins
- Living in hope
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Anthy, I share your
SirD, I agree about some of the tactics being employed in the U.S. election process right now. I have seen both parties do this when not in power: ideas they're on record as supporting become bad ideas when the despised president adopts some version of them; successes in foreign policy or the economy that could remotely be attributed to the despised president are ignored, belittled, or (last resort) decried because they didn't happen sooner/more emphatically. IMO, it's extremely poor citizenship to obstruct rather than facilitate when people are hurting, especially when the proposal in question would not be remotely controversial at any other time.
Some Republican elected officials seem to be stepping back from extreme anti-contraception proposals, but others are doubling down. I still think they're making a serious mistake from a political standpoint, even aside from the merits or lack of merits of the proposals themselves.
SirD, I agree about some of the tactics being employed in the U.S. election process right now. I have seen both parties do this when not in power: ideas they're on record as supporting become bad ideas when the despised president adopts some version of them; successes in foreign policy or the economy that could remotely be attributed to the despised president are ignored, belittled, or (last resort) decried because they didn't happen sooner/more emphatically. IMO, it's extremely poor citizenship to obstruct rather than facilitate when people are hurting, especially when the proposal in question would not be remotely controversial at any other time.
Some Republican elected officials seem to be stepping back from extreme anti-contraception proposals, but others are doubling down. I still think they're making a serious mistake from a political standpoint, even aside from the merits or lack of merits of the proposals themselves.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
Over the last few years I came to the conclusion that it is not enough for me to raise my son to be a loving and intelligent person, then to leave him in the world that seems increasingly hostile to people like him. There has to be more I can do.
I just wish I knew what.
I just wish I knew what.
If there was anything that depressed him more than his own cynicism, it was that quite often it still wasn't as cynical as real life.
Terry Pratchett, Guards! Guards!
Terry Pratchett, Guards! Guards!
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Primula Baggins
- Living in hope
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Vote. Speak up at every opportunity. Put your name on petitions. (Yes, even those online ones have been shown to influence events.) Write to your congressperson on issues that are important to you. Thank politicians who do things that you think need to be done. Support the opponents of those who don't.
If there is a campaign near you for a person you strongly support and would like to see in office or stay in office, volunteer some time. They'll make it easy for you.
You won't just be doing some good, you'll be modeling activism for your son. These days everyone needs to be paying attention to what's going on in the political world. It was people's willingness to ignore it that got us where we are. Now we can know what's going on (except in political donations); bills like the Virginia abortion bill or the Arizona immigration bill or the Wisconsin union-stripping bill can't be passed in the dead of night without anyone knowing or objecting. They still pass, a lot of the time, but not without consequences.
That's the new weapon ordinary people have: knowledge of what's going on, through the Internet and social media and smart devices. Knowledge that's almost immediate. I am not a conspiracy theorist at all, but I really think this fact is the motivation for at least some of the corporate and government entities that would like to put restrictions on the Internet, to slow down or even block sites they don't like and to monitor people's Web activities. To take us back to the old days when the network news or the daily paper would give us a severely truncated version of whatever their editors considered important that happened the day before. It was a lot easier to keep people docile back then (for better or for worse).
If there is a campaign near you for a person you strongly support and would like to see in office or stay in office, volunteer some time. They'll make it easy for you.
You won't just be doing some good, you'll be modeling activism for your son. These days everyone needs to be paying attention to what's going on in the political world. It was people's willingness to ignore it that got us where we are. Now we can know what's going on (except in political donations); bills like the Virginia abortion bill or the Arizona immigration bill or the Wisconsin union-stripping bill can't be passed in the dead of night without anyone knowing or objecting. They still pass, a lot of the time, but not without consequences.
That's the new weapon ordinary people have: knowledge of what's going on, through the Internet and social media and smart devices. Knowledge that's almost immediate. I am not a conspiracy theorist at all, but I really think this fact is the motivation for at least some of the corporate and government entities that would like to put restrictions on the Internet, to slow down or even block sites they don't like and to monitor people's Web activities. To take us back to the old days when the network news or the daily paper would give us a severely truncated version of whatever their editors considered important that happened the day before. It was a lot easier to keep people docile back then (for better or for worse).
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
I would mostly agree. I know that I tend to sit back and think "Well, surely that's not going to happen, people will hate it, it can never pass" but if enough other people also does that, it will be a mess.Primula Baggins wrote:These days everyone needs to be paying attention to what's going on in the political world. It was people's willingness to ignore it that got us where we are.