The crisis of the northern ontario community Attawapiskat

Post by **vison** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 3:50 am

Yes, and it will be considered as part of the money "spent on the Indians".

There are many reserves in Canada already being run by private managers.

Why can't it be done by civil servants?

Post by **Hachimitsu** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:26 pm

I heard about a report on the results overall about third party management and it just looks like a waste of money. I will go see if I can look it up

EDIT: It's this video, skip to 1:52, this evaluation was even done by the department of aboriginal affairs in 2010!!

Post by **SirDennis** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:51 pm

Wilma wrote:I heard about a report on the results overall about third party management and it just looks like a waste of money. I will go see if I can look it up

EDIT: It's this video, skip to 1:52, this evaluation was even done by the department of aboriginal affairs in 2010!!

There is also this video that does not paint a rosy picture:

Pamela Palmater a representative for the centre of indigenous governance at Ryerson University and David Harper, the Grand Chief of MKO North discuss the unfortunate news of the Attawapiskat ordered to pay money to the government.

Read more: http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Canada/201112 ... z1g4ocN8h6

ETA: Wilma, in the clip you shared, the Department of Indian Affairs said that the money spent on 3rd party management over the past 14 years would have been enough to cover the deficit in FN spending?

EETA: This one is a bit lengthier but the racism and punishment factor behind it all shines through: http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20 ... nt-111209/

Post by **Hachimitsu** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:56 pm

Quick response: The money spent over 14 years in one particular reserve would have paid the deficit in that one particular FN reserve.

Post by **SirDennis** » Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:01 am

Thanks Wilma.

Actually I'd love to hear the thoughts of anyone outside of Canada who has been following this thread, especially our friends to the south. It seems there is rarely any hesitation to pick apart US internal policy. As well, apart from the US and Canada, there are board members from other countries that have aboriginal communities, and policy regarding such...

Post by **Túrin Turambar** » Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:18 am

I suppose I have nothing to say that I haven't already said on similar threads in the past. Giving them money doesn't seem to work. Not giving them money doesn't seem to work. Personally, I think that their current problems are mostly economic in nature - living in the communities where they are now, they have no way of participating in the goods-and-services economy, and so no way of making an income, no opportunity and nothing to distract them from problems like alcohol abuse. Solving that problem has proved beyond the best policy-makers of the world's richest nations.

Post by **axordil** » Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:47 am

The American "solution" seems to be casinos, which only work if anyone lives nearby. Or selling mineral rights if any exist. Funny how that diamond mine that's almost certainly within their traditional use area doesn't bring them anything.

Post by **SirDennis** » Sun Dec 11, 2011 8:18 pm

Casinos (not that I'm advocating this as _the_ solution) can be run online as well. That would make revenue generation less place specific.

Yeah the mine is kind of suspicious. It doesn't bring them much, and as I said already, maybe it's where some of the seed or infrastructure money has gone. Is it possible someone has wanted the band to move because they wanted to expand the mine. This is not an unheard of business practice, especially where there is government corruption (or indifference) and indigenous populations standing in the way of profits. It is still surprising to think this could go on in Canada (or anywhere) that has enjoyed the kind of prosperity it has for as long as it has.

In one video I noticed a lot of clap board (chip board, particle board) construction... that has to be about the worst siding choice for anything exposed to weather. But even making a statement like that feels like, "oh I know better than they do." One does wonder, beyond its low price, why such inferior building materials were used. Is it possible it was the only thing made available?

Just from personal experience, portable homes can be quite comfortable, if they are built for the climate they are used in. But no portable home that I am aware of is suitable for prolonged continuous use.

Post by **vison** » Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:35 pm

Chip board is okay as long as it doesn't get wet. It works fine as sheathing, but no one should dream of using it on an exterior surface.

Buildings that "float" on the permafrost are the most practical. But then, how would you get flush toilets to work?

There are ways around these issues, but the thing that is lacking is the will to do so.

Post by **Hachimitsu** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 7:01 pm

Hey, I am still keeping up with this and I do have some things tosay. But I have needed to take a break on commenting since reading blatant racism on other sites and boards has been quite disheartening. I knew Canada has racism problems but I never knew how bad it was.

Post by **narya** » Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:57 pm

vison wrote:Wilma, as you say, there is corruption at every turn.

The other thing we could think of: in about 1500, say, the First Nations of North America lived only their traditional lifestyles.

They lived in igloos, tents, longhouses, huts: not frame houses with shingled roofs. They did not have electricity or running water. They did not have schools. They did not have hospitals. They did not have gumboots or down-filled parkas. They did not have snowmobiles or cars.

They ate only what they could kill, catch, or find. There was no mall at the end of the rainbow.

I doubt that many of them (or us) would like to return to that. What they want, and what I hope they can find, is to meld some aspects of their traditional lifestyles with the modern lifestyle every other Canadian enjoys.

An old friend of my former boss, Sydney Huntington, once was chatting with him and said, pensively "It's been a long time since someone left the village and didn't come back". When pressed, Sydney explained that when he was young, the men would leave the village one at a time, in the dead of winter, looking for food. They would bring it back to share with all, or die trying, in 60 below weather. No one wants to go back to that.

His autobiography is here, an excellent read:
http://www.amazon.com/Shadows-Koyukuk-A ... 088240427X