Legalized Slaughter of Horses for Human Consumption?

[Lalaith]

Is there any truth to this?

http://technorati.com/lifestyle/article ... for-human/

Horse slaughter plants are legal again in the United States. Restrictions on horse meat processing for human consumption have been lifted. courtesy of Google Images

In a bipartisan effort, the House of Representatives and the United States Senate approved the Conference Committee report on spending bill H2112, which among other things, funds the United States Department of Agriculture. On November 18th, as the country was celebrating Thanksgiving, President Obama signed a law, allowing Americans to kill and eat horses. Essentially, one turkey was pardoned in the presence of worldwide media while in the shadows, buried under pages of fiscal regulation, millions of horses were sentenced to death.

Horse slaughter has been prohibited in the United States as funding for inspections of horses in transit and at slaughter houses was non-existent. This worked because the horse meat cannot be sold for human consumption without such inspections. The House version of the bill retained the de-funding language and the Senate version did not. The conference committee charged with reconciling the two opted to not include it. The result is that it is now legal to slaughter horses for humans to eat.

Notwithstanding that 70% of Americans oppose horse slaughter, that President Obama made a campaign promise to permanently ban horse slaughter and exports of horses for human consumption (horses can be sent to Mexico and Canada), that documentation of animal cruelty, slaughterhouse stench, fluid runoff and negative community impact exists, it is taxpayers that will bear the costs!

Wyoming state representative Sue Wallis and her pro-slaughter group estimate that between 120,000 and 200,000 horses will be killed for human consumption per year and that Oregon, Idaho, Wyoming, Montana, Nebraska, North Dakota, Georgia and Missouri, are considering opening slaughter plants.

During these trying times, is the only thing that Democrats and Republicans can agree on is that Americans need to eat horses?

Read more: http://technorati.com/lifestyle/article ... z1fDQJDEUr

Obviously, the author has an opinion about this, but I'm not finding anything to refute the basic facts of the article. (I know nothing about this website either.)

[River]

I am going to preface this by saying I flat out don't see animal flesh as food. Doesn't matter what kind of animal we're talking about. Doesn't matter how it was raised and slaughtered. To me, it is not food. It's dead muscle and dead bone and I can't put it in my mouth. Most people think this is weird so, if you're reading this post and getting offended or rolling your eyes, you're not alone. Anyway, that said, I must ask. Aside from the issues universal to modern meat production and assuming people buying the meat know what they're buying, is there something inherently wrong with eating horse? Other than cultural hang-ups?

[Lalaith]

I don't make excuses for the cultural hangups. I wouldn't eat horses, cats, dogs, mountain lions, etc. I wouldn't eat chocolate-covered scorpions either (cf. Lazy Single Guy Cooking thread).

I guess I'm just trying to figure out (a) is this even true? and (b) what good is it doing to slaughter these horses? Is there an over-population issue that can't be resolved in some other non-lethal way? Are there really people out there clamoring to eat horse meat? I suppose there may be pockets of immigrants here and there throughout the US who don't have an issue with this and maybe even some Americans who have been here for awhile.

But really? Really? I'm sorry. I'm not feeling gracious enough today to take the enlightened view about how I should logically put aside any cultural hangups and realize that it's no worse or better to eat any particular animal. Today I'm tired and feeling curmudgeonly, and I don't want to see people in the US slaughtering horses and eating them.

And, no, I don't think you're weird, River. I think it's good for you to follow your convictions to the logical end.

[SirDennis]

what good is it doing to slaughter these horses? Is there an over-population issue that can't be resolved in some other non-lethal way? Are there really people out there clamoring to eat horse meat?

There appears to be a desire to increase demand for a product in over supply. Because of improvements in breeding technique, but also rising costs, breeders have been left with animals they cannot sell at any price. Apparently horses bred for racing are being sent to slaughter because breeders cannot afford to keep them. Few are sold anymore for riding because of the expense of that pastime.

To hear a breeder's perspective (which I do not share, my solution would be to stop breeding animals for profit) you can listen here: http://www.cbc.ca/video/news/audioplaye ... 2008986251

This is the text of the introduction to that piece:

Every month, there's a horse auction in Candiac, a small farming community about an hour-and-a-half's drive east of Regina. About a hundred spectators stand outside the auction barn, watching as a fine pair of grey draft horses are paraded up and down.

Things are not going well.

The auctioneer started the bidding at three thousand dollars for the pair. The owner would be happy with two thousand. But the horses are finally sold for just nine hundred and fifty dollars.

That's a lot less than the owner would have received for each of them, just a few years ago.

Across North America, horses are selling for less than it costs to produce them.

In Canada, three-quarters of horse breeders have left the business in the last five years. And many of those of who remain are struggling to survive.

Recently, producer Sean Prpick visited one of these survivors at her ranch in north central Alberta.

Betty Coulthard has been raising horses for more than twenty years. But her business is now in deep trouble. And the measures she has taken to survive, have made her the target of angry animal rights activists.

Now all the above deals with Canada, but the US is probably in the same boat, and after all is the same market. In Canada it is legal to sell horse for human consumption, it remains illegal (I think) for animal (pet) consumption.

[Maria]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/3 ... 20623.html

Looks like it was part of a spending bill package that Congress approved and the president signed.

I'm OK with horses going to slaughter. For the past few years it's been rather heartbreaking with all the craigslist ads where people couldn't even give away horses for free.

There really needs to be an outlet for excess horses. According to that article, neglect and abuse have been on the rise for old, crippled, dying or untrained horses that people couldn't get rid of. Why not use all that meat? A horse has more meat on its bones than a steer and if some people like it, why waste it?

The only real repercussion will be that people who are emotionally attached to their horse but have to get rid of it will be that they must price their horse above what the knackers will pay.

Oh, and the outrage of the tender hearted, of course.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Saying "Obama Legalizes Slaughter of Horses for Human Consumption" is pretty misleading given that this was a bill passed by congress, which provided appropriations for the Departments of Agriculture, Commerce, Justice, Transportation, and Housing and Urban Development, and related programs for the fiscal year ending September 30, 2012, and which was approved by large enough majorities of both houses to easily override any veto, should the president have chosen to do so. Unfortunately, the article also mislabels the designation of the bill, so if you do a search on what it says "Spending Bill H2112" all of the results are to equally misleading and hyberbolic blogs that cite or quote the original misleading article. Grrrrr! I hate "journalism" like that.

Here are some better links:

H. R. 2112 (full text of the bill)

H.R.2112 - Department of Justice Appropriations Act, 2012 (OpenCongress)

Bill Passes without Defunding Horsemeat Inspections (thehorse.com)


Horses Could Soon Be Slaughtered for Meat in U.S. (Fox News)

[Frelga]

ETA: x-posted w/ Voronwë.

First off, the article says it was a bi-partisan effort approved by both HoR and Senate and signed by the President, so it seems hardly fair to say it was Obama who legalized it.

Second, as I recall from the Californian debate over a ban on selling horse meat for human consumption, slaughter of horses was always going for pet food.

Third, I wonder how much demand there really is and to whom. Maybe this is one issue that marker forces can take of.

Finally, I don't expect to ever taste horse. They are not kosher, for one thing. But. If we are going to allow slaughter and consumption of any animals, then I don't see a fundamental difference between cute and fluffy lambs, adorable deer and horses. This is one area where I feel everyone should have access to their preferred food, so long as it is safely and humanely prepared. Even if it's something that makes me gag.

I'm not a vegetarian myself, although my consumption of red meat is almost zero, for the record.

[Maria]

There used to be a horse slaughter facility in Missouri and after it closed down is when the prices of horses offered for sale online plummeted and you started seeing pitiful ads of people trying to give away their special needs horses. And hearing about people having their horses seized when they could no longer feed them.

Feeding a large herbivore takes a lot of money, especially when hay is scarce like this year. My parents have 4 horses and no hay production capability- so they have to buy hay at exhorbitant prices this year. If I ever inherit those horses, there is no way I'm taking on the task of keeping them fed and cared for long. If we can't sell or give them to interested persons, we'll be selling them to knackers. For this (and innumerable other reasons), I hope my parents long outlive those animals! I do not want them!

And, btw, I never thought senior citizens taking up horse raising and training was a good idea. They've finally gelded the males, so their herd will stop increasing- but really! And my mom has severe osteoporosis. What were they thinking?

[Inanna]

So, dogs next?

[vison]

I've never eaten horsemeat and probably never will. But as has been mentioned above in this thread, there are thousands, maybe millions, of horses in North America that are not properly fed or cared for.

Almost invariably when some "farmer" is found to be treating animals inhumanely it is some fool with too many horses and no means of feeding them.

Just why these persons are called "farmers" is beyond me, there is no "farming" involved in having animals you can't feed and don't shelter properly. I've seen it myself, sadly enough, and I can tell you that as a horse-lover (and I am, have been all my life) I could shoot these poor things myself rather than see them abused as some people abuse them.

[anthriel]

My understanding is that much of that horsemeat goes overseas... some European countries (I always hear France mentioned) consider it a delicacy?

Anyway, no, I don't think many Americans eat horse or dogmeat. We don't, generally speaking, tend to eat our pets.

Bleh.

A LOT of people in the horse community have battled on this subject, and I hear pretty passionate arguments on both sides. It is hard to deny, however, with the closing of horse slaughterhouses (the last one closed in 2007, due to public outcry) coinciding with the downturn in the economy, that taking this choice away from owners has increased the suffering of some horses in the USA.

And that would be nice to avoid, right? For the animals we love?

Double bleh.

My Pinto horse Kolby was (apparently) sold at auction in 2006, purchased by the pound. He's awfully pretty, our Kolbs, and I think that's why someone bought him from "the knackers" to try to make another buck off of him. He really wasn't very well trained, or easy to handle.

But, of course, five years later, he's reserve champion in training level dressage in the state of Arizona.

It just all seems like a crapshoot. What is a horse worth, anyway?

[Maria]

One of the horses my parents bought was a pity purchase. They saw an extremely cheap young horse for sale on craigslist and went to see him, and he was skin and bones and tied to a tree with a halter that hadn't been removed in so long it was almost imbedded in his face.

So, they took him home with him and yes, with feeding up he became a gorgeous animal. And a money pit. And a father. Twice.

Breeding horses seems like a good idea until the reality of feeding *more* of them smacks you in the face.

[Maria]

Here's my parent's horses. I miscounted before, they have 5.


They are beautiful. *sigh*

Notice the total lack of grass?

[Alatar]

As has been stated I see no difference between eating Horses and Cattle. I've eaten horse steak in Europe, and its not really much different to beef. Its a mental block, that's all. I've also eaten Rabbit, Ostrich and Kangaroo. Its all just meat, surely?

[Primula Baggins]

Objectively, yes. Humans eat dog meat as well. I just think it's harder to contemplate if you've personally owned and loved a horse or a dog. A common human tendency is to personify our beloved pets, and we don't eat people. It isn't rational, but it's real, for many.

[vison]

I have no trouble eating beef, and I have raised dozens of steers and cows over the years. Some of those critters were pets - I dearly loved my old milk cow Bessy as much as I ever loved any horse or dog I ever had. Growing up on a farm and living on a farm all my adult life, I can make that mental disconnect between "the pet" and "the beef". But horses for eating have not been part of my cultural heritage and I'm not about to change.

Still, I've know lots of people who have eaten horsemeat, they are all Europeans.

If a person, such as Anthriel, keeps pleasure horses and actually rides them and cares for them as they should be cared for, that's lovely. I don't ride any more, but I did for years and it's great. Horses are very social animals, like all herd animals, and it's cruel (IMHO) to keep a solitary horse unless you spend a great deal of time with it.

But I have an aquaintance who keeps 3 horses. She rides one a couple of times a month and she keeps the others for . . . what, exactly? All I ever hear from her is how much hay costs and how much the vet bill is and I wonder why she bothers. They are adequately looked after, but they spend their lives in a small pasture and that's it. She is the sort of person who makes horses nervous - it's hard to explain but I bet Anthriel knows what I mean - a horse that never acts up for anyone else will act up for her. The horse she rides is a new horse, a lovely little Arab mare, sweet as candy, but the horse dances and sidles when this woman is around her.

Anyway, that's neither here nor there on the horse-eating front. No difference between one animal and the other, if you're going to eat meat -except what you're used to and find acceptable.

[Holbytla]

Yeah it is a weird thing with lines that are crossed and lines that are nearly non-existent.

There are all kinds of rendered animal products out there. The belt you wear or the Jell-O you eat or the products you dump in your flower bed are likely made from some form of animal by-product. And some of them came from pets and loved ones.

At one time, I had hens that laid eggs. I could eat those eggs, but I couldn't raise meat birds and eat them. Yet I can go an buy a chicken with no problem, chop it up and call it dinner. I never really got attached or even liked those dumb chickens either.

Hell no couldn't I eat horse meat in any form, but never especially from an animal I knew. Yet I have no issues with using horse products from something rendered.

Humans can be contradictory and odd.
We like to think that we are better than most animals because we feel and think, and yet there are times when I think we feel and think too much and yet not enough at the same time.

I have known people that would have rather their brother had been killed instead of their horse, and those that were thankful that it was their brother rather than their horse. Who knows, maybe they were right, and knowing one of the brothers I would hate to second guess it.

Rebecca and I have a saying that we often share.
People ****. (fine, enter s-u-c-k for the asterisks if you though I meant something worse)
And in so many ways, it makes my head spin.

This all gets into the realm of existentialism and loads of other isms that make me go all wigga wigga.

Should I eat horse? No idea. Should I not eat horse? No idea. Should I survive and trust instincts or use my "brain" and think beyond to a purpose that no one has ever ever even remotely has attributed to any kind of fact? No idea.
Should I ignore instincts and eons of RNA? RNA? What? Is? That? Zactly?
Easy to make that assumption of whether to eat or not to eat in 2011 when you don't have to carry the whole of human existence on your shoulders and deciding whether eating that cute little doe eyed deer will see the species for another day or not.

People think too much. People don't think nearly enough and it all could be meaningless anyway so do whatever you feel and see what happens.

Guts are the best barometer I say.

[tinwë]

Can I respectfully ask that the title of this thread be changed please? I have reached a point at my job where a day does not go by when some client of mine doesn't blame Obama for every bad thing that has ever happened and I am quite frankly sick of it. I don't need to see the same thing when I come here. Thank you.

edited to remove offensive word and to apologize for any perceived insult. I am truly sorry.

[SirDennis]

Not so very long ago it was understood in NA that some animals were raised for, erm, aesthetic reasons, and some for practical reasons.

Meat is extremely inefficient to produce -- way more food goes in than is rendered; to say nothing of the land that is used to feed meat instead of grow crops for direct human consumption. Then there's the hazardous by-products and water wasted in processing it. A live cow feeds more people than a dead one. But some animals, dogs and cats in particular, are heavy polluters of ground water.

I would tend not to eat horse for the same reason as Frelga, but more so from a perspective that it is unhealthy to eat such things.

I say "would tend not to eat" because though I hardly ever eat any type of flesh I am open to try most foods at least once. About a year ago I tried alligator (had a bite to it) and I do eat pork from time to time. I would go out of my way for fresh caribou (which can be kosher I believe!) Pretty sure though I would not eat horse... but one never knows.


ETA: To tinwë, yeah VtF's post clears up the question of Obama's intentions here.

[Lalaith]

tinwë, I agree with Voronwë's post, so please don't be annoyed with me for simply copying the title of the only article I could find at the time on this subject. I did look for another source of information, but all I could find at the time were other sites that had copied the same article.

I will change the thread title out of deference to you.

As a matter of fact, the mods can delete the whole damn thread if they want to. I don't care.