I daresay you know more about it than I do, but it doesn't look that way to me.Voronwë the Steadfast wrote:Why aren't more people talking about the Thomas "controversy"? Because it isn't a big deal, except to idealogues who don't like his (or rather his wife's) politics. It reminds me strongly of the demands of conservatives that Judge Reinhardt recuse himself from the Prop 8 case because of his wife's employment with the ACLU. Ridiculous in both cases.
Will Rep Weiner resign? Should he?
Dig deeper.
I know that in Clinton's case as here there was the question of the politician's honesty and moral judgement in their personal life (though Clinton was charged with perjury IIRC -- but was what he was charged with lying about anyone's business but his own?) In both cases, as well as the recent question of Obama's citizenship, I have to wonder if opposition politicians might not have anything more fruitful to do than waste the public's time and attention over personal details a/o failings... especially as such things are common on their side of the fence as well.
Leaving aside whether what Clinton did was wrong or not, those who would not let the personal scandal sort itself out in private perpetrated an egregious harm to the broader public by wasting time and effort that might have been better spent actually helping improve the lives of their constituents.
Leaving aside whether what Clinton did was wrong or not, those who would not let the personal scandal sort itself out in private perpetrated an egregious harm to the broader public by wasting time and effort that might have been better spent actually helping improve the lives of their constituents.
Yes! However, many of those "leaders" were leaders by birth or war. Hopefully we can have a better class of leader if we have a choice. Hopefully.vison wrote:But, Anthriel, "reckless and stupid" is what many, many, many politicians, kings, tribal chiefs, governors, captains, generals, etc., have always been. That's obvious when we look at world history. Think of Europe in the Middle Ages, "ruled" by generations of loony men/boys who were very likely all born damaged by FAS and made into kings and dukes and landgraves . . .Anthriel wrote:I wouldn't want reckless and stupid to be what represents me in Congress.
For the record, one of the things I like the most about Pres. Obama is that he seems neither reckless nor stupid. Hillary Clinton seems neither reckless nor stupid. I think both have huge egos. Both are effective at promoting themselves, or else they wouldn't be where they are. I can forgive a bit of an ego, in such people.
I have heard other people (mainly women!) who had the same reponse to Mr. Clinton. He does seem to sparkle...As for Mr. Clinton, he, somehow, gets a special pass. Why? Because he's big and handsome and when he smiles the world seems brighter. Why is that? A friend of mine met him a few years ago when he was speaking in Vancouver - she was with someone "important" and Mr. Clinton took a minute or two to speak with them as he was leaving. Kelly said when he shook her hand she felt an electric-type shock and when his blue eyes met hers she got weak in the knees - despite the fact that she wasn't particularly keen on him. (She's an American now living in Canada and lived in the US during the Clinton years.) There ARE people with that kind of charisma. They are dangerous and we should be on the watch for them, not so ready to fall for them.
I had a solid case of goosebumps meeting Sen. John McCain. I think I was really struck by how caring he seemed... he came up to talk to me when I was clearly nobody, simply handing out nametags at a political dinner where he was the speaker. The entire conversation was probably about 30 seconds long, but I will never forget it. He has the specialness about him, too!
Mr. anth has a theory that Mr. Weiner was never popular with girls in high school, and now he gets attention, and he's finally able to flirt with the head cheerleader. I think there may be something to that.The unfortunately named Mr. Weiner is one of those many, many, many guys corrupted by power. His little bit of power went to his head and he lost what little sense of decorum he might ever have had. He probably didn't ever have much.
"What do you fear, lady?" Aragorn asked.
"A cage," Éowyn said. "To stay behind bars, until use and old age accept them, and all chance of doing great deeds is gone beyond recall or desire.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
"A cage," Éowyn said. "To stay behind bars, until use and old age accept them, and all chance of doing great deeds is gone beyond recall or desire.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
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axordil
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What, then, do we say about those who WERE popular and STILL do stupid things because they think they can get away with it?Mr. anth has a theory that Mr. Weiner was never popular with girls in high school, and now he gets attention, and he's finally able to flirt with the head cheerleader. I think there may be something to that.
SirDennis wrote:I know that in Clinton's case as here there was the question of the politician's honesty and moral judgement in their personal life (though Clinton was charged with perjury IIRC -- but was what he was charged with lying about anyone's business but his own?) In both cases, as well as the recent question of Obama's citizenship, I have to wonder if opposition politicians might not have anything more fruitful to do than waste the public's time and attention over personal details a/o failings... especially as such things are common on their side of the fence as well.
Leaving aside whether what Clinton did was wrong or not, those who would not let the personal scandal sort itself out in private perpetrated an egregious harm to the broader public by wasting time and effort that might have been better spent actually helping improve the lives of their constituents.
I think people forget what was really going on with the Clinton thing... I have forgotten much of it, myself. But wasn't a lawsuit filed where he was accused of sexually harassing someone... Paula Jones, I think? There were many who said a sitting president should not be held accountable for such things, but he was held accountable, and the (some would say witchhunt) that ensued is what brought the infamous Monica and her Special Dress to light. Before anyone but Monica knew about the special dress, when Clinton thought he could just get away with calling all those witnesses liars and charm his way out of the controversy, he lied to the grand jury. At that point, it was more than a personal issue.
I guess that may be what the difference in these two cases is to me, actually. Mr. Weiner has broken no laws, and none of the women involved are complaining about his attentions being unwelcome, to my knowledge. If the 17 year old truly was not approached inappropriately, then he's just a sad sort with personal issues and his problems are between him and his wife.
I still wouldn't want him to be my representative. He just seems... reckless and stupid.
"What do you fear, lady?" Aragorn asked.
"A cage," Éowyn said. "To stay behind bars, until use and old age accept them, and all chance of doing great deeds is gone beyond recall or desire.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
"A cage," Éowyn said. "To stay behind bars, until use and old age accept them, and all chance of doing great deeds is gone beyond recall or desire.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
Anyone specific come to mind?axordil wrote:What, then, do we say about those who WERE popular and STILL do stupid things because they think they can get away with it?Mr. anth has a theory that Mr. Weiner was never popular with girls in high school, and now he gets attention, and he's finally able to flirt with the head cheerleader. I think there may be something to that.
"What do you fear, lady?" Aragorn asked.
"A cage," Éowyn said. "To stay behind bars, until use and old age accept them, and all chance of doing great deeds is gone beyond recall or desire.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
"A cage," Éowyn said. "To stay behind bars, until use and old age accept them, and all chance of doing great deeds is gone beyond recall or desire.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
SirDennis wrote:Anthriel said:
It is said that certain proclivities are afforded kings that are not extended to the common man.I have heard other people (mainly women!) who had the same response to Mr. Clinton. He does seem to sparkle...
Ah, but they are not kings. I have been reading about Henry Tudor, and how he determined that he alone was responsible for whether his subjects received salvation... that he was God, in effect. In the USA, I think there is a real resistance to any mere human being king.. or God. We all should answer to the same set of rules.
Not that that really happens, of course...
"What do you fear, lady?" Aragorn asked.
"A cage," Éowyn said. "To stay behind bars, until use and old age accept them, and all chance of doing great deeds is gone beyond recall or desire.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
"A cage," Éowyn said. "To stay behind bars, until use and old age accept them, and all chance of doing great deeds is gone beyond recall or desire.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
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axordil
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Many of the Kennedys come to mind, or any other scions of families of wealth and power.anthriel wrote:Anyone specific come to mind?axordil wrote:What, then, do we say about those who WERE popular and STILL do stupid things because they think they can get away with it?Mr. anth has a theory that Mr. Weiner was never popular with girls in high school, and now he gets attention, and he's finally able to flirt with the head cheerleader. I think there may be something to that.
I was wondering when the Kennedy name was going to come up.
The car accident with Ted Kennedy and Mary Jo Kopechne in 1969 was far far worse than anything Weiner did, not to mention all of the other infamous Ted stories out there. Yet that didn't prevent him from being an effective Senator with lots and lots of power for a very long time. His personal life notwithstanding.
It is difficult for me to argue for Weiner, because I think he is a dirtbag that should just go away. I do think, or maybe rather I feel, that there is a sort of double standard though when we assert that he is unfit to be a US Rep because of his actions, and at the same time overlook the personal lives of other people.
I think Weiner should and will resign if for no other reason than to spare the taxpayers the headache. Ultimately though I think the voters should decide. If a city wants to elect a guy that was caught smoking crack in a motel with a prostitute, then so be it.
The car accident with Ted Kennedy and Mary Jo Kopechne in 1969 was far far worse than anything Weiner did, not to mention all of the other infamous Ted stories out there. Yet that didn't prevent him from being an effective Senator with lots and lots of power for a very long time. His personal life notwithstanding.
It is difficult for me to argue for Weiner, because I think he is a dirtbag that should just go away. I do think, or maybe rather I feel, that there is a sort of double standard though when we assert that he is unfit to be a US Rep because of his actions, and at the same time overlook the personal lives of other people.
I think Weiner should and will resign if for no other reason than to spare the taxpayers the headache. Ultimately though I think the voters should decide. If a city wants to elect a guy that was caught smoking crack in a motel with a prostitute, then so be it.
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Cenedril_Gildinaur
- Posts: 1076
- Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 7:01 pm
Should he resign?
Well, that's a little complex of a question. I'll break it up into two questions.
Is is offense (such as it is) serious enough that he should resign?
That is to me a clear "no". Oh seriously, what laws did he break? So he's a lech. Big deal. Dirty old men can be right on the issues or wrong on the issues. They can have useful insights on topics other than proper dating techniques. As long as the skirt chasing doesn't interfere with job performance, big deal.
Is the media sensation over this so big that it is distracting the public from real problems?
Of course, but that describes just about everything on the CNN-Fox axis of journalism. I would say "resign so that we can focus on real issues" because I know his refusal to resign would create a press frenzy, except I also know that the press will simply move on to the next shiny bauble. No real benefit if he resigns then.
Well, that's a little complex of a question. I'll break it up into two questions.
Is is offense (such as it is) serious enough that he should resign?
That is to me a clear "no". Oh seriously, what laws did he break? So he's a lech. Big deal. Dirty old men can be right on the issues or wrong on the issues. They can have useful insights on topics other than proper dating techniques. As long as the skirt chasing doesn't interfere with job performance, big deal.
Is the media sensation over this so big that it is distracting the public from real problems?
Of course, but that describes just about everything on the CNN-Fox axis of journalism. I would say "resign so that we can focus on real issues" because I know his refusal to resign would create a press frenzy, except I also know that the press will simply move on to the next shiny bauble. No real benefit if he resigns then.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."
-- Samuel Adams
-- Samuel Adams
I'm not sure if you were writing in response to anything I wrote, or if I even wrote that I felt he was unfit to be a US Rep because of his actions.Holbytla wrote: I do think, or maybe rather I feel, that there is a sort of double standard though when we assert that he is unfit to be a US Rep because of his actions, and at the same time overlook the personal lives of other people.
I'm actually not sure that's true. I just wouldn't want him representing me, if I had any choice in the matter. If his NY constituents are happy with him, his juvenile "wanna see my package" antics aside, then it all works just fine.
"What do you fear, lady?" Aragorn asked.
"A cage," Éowyn said. "To stay behind bars, until use and old age accept them, and all chance of doing great deeds is gone beyond recall or desire.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
"A cage," Éowyn said. "To stay behind bars, until use and old age accept them, and all chance of doing great deeds is gone beyond recall or desire.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/12/weeki ... .html?_r=4
Interesting article. I typically don't much care for stereotypic descriptions of people, and I'm not sure I want to jump on the "girls rule, boys drool" bandwagon. But I think there are some good points here.
Interesting article. I typically don't much care for stereotypic descriptions of people, and I'm not sure I want to jump on the "girls rule, boys drool" bandwagon. But I think there are some good points here.
"What do you fear, lady?" Aragorn asked.
"A cage," Éowyn said. "To stay behind bars, until use and old age accept them, and all chance of doing great deeds is gone beyond recall or desire.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
"A cage," Éowyn said. "To stay behind bars, until use and old age accept them, and all chance of doing great deeds is gone beyond recall or desire.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
No just in general from what I have observed in life.anthriel wrote:I'm not sure if you were writing in response to anything I wrote, or if I even wrote that I felt he was unfit to be a US Rep because of his actions.Holbytla wrote: I do think, or maybe rather I feel, that there is a sort of double standard though when we assert that he is unfit to be a US Rep because of his actions, and at the same time overlook the personal lives of other people.
I'm actually not sure that's true. I just wouldn't want him representing me, if I had any choice in the matter. If his NY constituents are happy with him, his juvenile "wanna see my package" antics aside, then it all works just fine.
He didn't really say "wanna see my package" did he?
This is one of the reasons I despise the political machine in DC.
Pretty much.Holbytla wrote:He didn't really say "wanna see my package" did he?
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162- ... 03544.html
"What do you fear, lady?" Aragorn asked.
"A cage," Éowyn said. "To stay behind bars, until use and old age accept them, and all chance of doing great deeds is gone beyond recall or desire.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
"A cage," Éowyn said. "To stay behind bars, until use and old age accept them, and all chance of doing great deeds is gone beyond recall or desire.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
His package isn't going to beg? 
And why am I not surprised by this?:
And why am I not surprised by this?:
She never misses a chance to get herself on tv and in the news.Ginger Lee, a former porn actress who currently works as a "feature dancer" in nightclubs, said today that Weiner tried several times to engage her in sexual communication but that she never took the bait.
Lee held a press conference in New York City, accompanied by her lawyer Gloria Allred .....
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Voronwë the Faithful
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