An eye for an eye --> whole world (literally) blind.

[nerdanel]

I have no problem with this discussion, but it is very close to getting its own thread.

[Frelga]

I am unclear why people who conside corporal punishment a quick and efficient way of modifying a child's behavior do not apply the same logic to adults. There aren't many calls to go back to flogging sailors, caning soldiers and whipping peasants.

To get back on topic, the problem with justice-as-punishment approach is the same as with corporal punishment in children. Unless it is very harsh, many will always choose to misbehave and take the punishment.

That was vividly illustrated for me by a grown man who was educated in British public school. He waxed poetic about the beauty and justice of being smacked with a ruler on the hands, etc. Then he said, "Of course, most of the time it was worth it to take the paddling and do whatever we wanted. Why, we used to boast about the hard smacking we got!" At which point I rested my case.

Compare, for instance, prison tattoos that career criminals in Russia used to put on their hands and sometimes necks. In a culture where tattoos were relatively uncommon, they bragged and advertised the punishment they received, and we are talking about a system where cruel was not unusual.

Conclusion - punishment does not provide sufficient deterrent from future wrongdoing, unless it precludes the very possibility by either killing the convicted or locking them up forever.

[Sunsilver]

The horrible thing is that blinding women with acid is fairly common in Muslim countries:

http://www.france24.com/en/node/4961615#

http://www.faithfreedom.org/articles/wo ... ck-part-2/

The incidence of acid attacks in Pakistan is said to be at an all-time high. The attacks are usually carried out by husbands against wives who are judged to have behaved ‘dishonourably’. Many are left with horrific injuries and campaign groups say that much tougher sentences are needed.

... Campaigners complained that there are nearly 50 incidents of acid attacks taking place every year in Balochistan and 150 incidents every year in Pakistan.

They also complained that the tactic of throwing acid at women’s faces not wearing hijab is common practice by militant Muslims. The tradition started during to the Islamic revolution in Iran. Unveiled women were systematically attacked with acid splashed on their faces. This led to women being forced to wear hijab, which gave the appearance that the entire population is Isamist and in support of the Islamic revolution.

As far as punishing the perpetrator, my feelings are two wrongs don't make a right. What needs to change is the attitude towards women that would allow this to happen in the first place. Unfortunately, in the countries where Shaira law is strictly observed, that isn't very likely.

[nerdanel]

I have been trying to come up with words for this story for a week now, and I can't come up with any, beyond the fact that Rais Bhuiyan is 1,000,000x the maximum person I could possibly aspire to be even when I finally grow up. Just a spectacular human being.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/19/us/19questions.html

Since the Behrami story made the news, I have thought about it every day. I have no standing to begrudge Ms. Behrami her response; she has experienced something so far beyond what most of us will ever experience in our lives. But considering the fact that a legal system actually offered her the acid-driven revenge she sought made me start to question the presence of pure retributivism in a legal system in a way that I had not, before. And so I think that Mr. Bhuiyan's story is a poignant counterpart to hers - especially as both deal with a loss of vision, though hers more than his.

But to be honest, the more I think about these issues, the more I start to accept that they are beyond me. I haven't lived enough or had the sorts of experiences that would entitle me to speak about them with any sort of authority. The sorts of experiences that give you that authority are ones that you wouldn't wish on your worst enemy, etc. And to be honest, I think that when the rest of us discuss these issues, we're just talking.

[Ghân-buri-Ghân]

But to be honest, the more I think about these issues, the more I start to accept that they are beyond me. I haven't lived enough or had the sorts of experiences that would entitle me to speak about them with any sort of authority. The sorts of experiences that give you that authority are ones that you wouldn't wish on your worst enemy, etc. And to be honest, I think that when the rest of us discuss these issues, we're just talking.

Whilst I find myself sympathetic to your conclusion, I cannot agree, as this leads to the dangerous concept that only those with direct experience of an event are furnished with an ability to make informed judgments. Ideas can be entertained, examined, dissected, and through this process rational decisions can be reached and made. Absolute empiricism is too constricting; the contrary is a necessity. The mind needs to be freed from materialist reactionism. The greatest philosophers who continue to influence modern thought and behaviour were not constrained by only those actions which were personal. And for that, I believe, we should be eternally thankful.

[axordil]

I'd go even further: sometimes direct experience can destroy a person's ability to make an informed judgment in an area. The invisible scars run too deep.

[River]

And this is where Bahrami's story ends:

An Iranian woman blinded and disfigured by a man who threw acid into her face stood above her attacker Sunday in a hospital operating room as a doctor was about to put several drops of acid in one of his eyes in court-ordered retribution.

The man waited on his knees and wept.

"What do you want to do now?" the doctor asked the 34-year-old woman, whose own face was severely disfigured in the 2004 attack.

"I forgave him, I forgave him," she responded, asking the doctor to spare him at the last minute in a dramatic scene broadcast on Iran's state television.

Ameneh Bahrami lost her sight and suffered horrific burns to her face, scalp and body in the attack, carried out by a man who was angered that she refused his marriage proposal.

Bahrami, whose face remains visibly burned, was a glimpse of her former self, wearing a touch of pink gloss on her lips and a loosely wrapped headscarf to the hospital where the sentence was to be carried out. She was helped into the building by two women who held both her hands.

"It is best to pardon when you are in a position of power," Bahrami said, explaining that she did not want revenge.

It is not clear from the article whether or not this was her plan all along (nor do I really think it matters if it was), but...wow.

[vison]

A wise woman. She did the right thing, this made the point better than revenge could.

[Impenitent]

And so much better for her soul!

[Inanna]

Was there any other punishment sentenced that will be carried out on this man?

[River]

From the linked article:

Tehran prosecutor Abbas Jafari Dowlatabadi said Movahedi would remain in jail until a court decides on an alternative punishment, according to Iran's ISNA news agency.

He said her attacker will have to pay financial compensation as Bahrami has requested. In the past, Bahrami has asked for up to $200,000 in compensation from the assailant.

[vison]

I am all in favour of restorative justice. This man should have to pay something for her support for the rest of his life - but not so much as to cripple his life and make him then unable to work at all. Temper justice - not with mercy - but with common sense.