Capital punishment

[Inanna]

I don't believe in collective guilt, but I do believe in collective stupidity. Pretending we have a perfect judicial system, and thus are ethically capable of administering a punishment for which there are no takebacks, in the face of numerous cases to the contrary, is that kind of stupid.

Well said, Ax.

[nerdanel]

The Rosh Hashanah machzor (High Holy Day prayerbook) seemed to me to weigh in tonight on the distinction between a wicked act and a wicked person, in the capital context (loosely speaking):

Certain wicked people in Rabbi Meir's neighborhood troubled him greatly. He prayed for them to die. Beruriah, his wife, asked him, "On what do you base your prayer?" He replied, "Because it is written, 'May sinners vanish from the earth.'" She responded, "Does it say 'sinners'? No: it says 'sins.' ... you should instead pray that they repent, then 'the wicked will be no more.'" Rabbi Meir prayed for mercy upon them, and they repented.

- Babylonian Talmud, Berachot 10a

[Primula Baggins]

Thanks, nel, for sharing those wise words of Beruriah's.

[Frelga]

Beruriah rocked. She is one of the few women quoted in the Talmud. And she sure knew how to deal with trolls.

A certain Sadducee said to Beruryah, "It is written [Is. 54:1], 'Sing, O barren one, who did not bear.' Because she did not bear [should she] sing?" She said to him, "Fool. Cast your eyes to the end of the verse where is written, 'For the children of the desolate one will be more than the children of her that married, says the lord.' What then does, 'Barren one who did not bear' mean? [It implies that you] rejoice, sons of the assembly of Israel, who resemble a barren woman who did not bear sons of gehenna like you."

In relation to the nel's quote, it is unclear to me that the wicked people mentioned committed acts that merited capital punishment, and if they didn't, Reb Meyer was certainly in the wrong to pray for their death.

[nerdanel]

Frelga,

I didn't mean to suggest that it was clear what those individual perpetrators had done -- just that Beruriah's reasoning seems to hold valid even for capital offenses. Also, given that the rabbi seems to have cited specific scriptural authority for his stance in unabridged versions of the story, I suspect that the wicked acts were viewed in capital terms in Talmudic times.

[Frelga]

Well... not necessarily, but that's a Talmudic discussion, and probably out of place in this thread. Out of that context, though, it is a good quote.

[Primula Baggins]

I'm not sure an actual Talmudic discussion is at all out of place anywhere on this board. . . .

[Voronwë the Faithful]

[Voronwë the Faithful]

The SCOTUS will be hearing arguments today in a case that will go a long way to showing just how broken our capital punishment system really is. In the case, Maples v. Thomas, the defendant was convicted in Alabama of shooting 2 people to death in 2000, and sentenced to death by a 10-2 vote. As is so often the case in death penalty cases, he claims inadequate representation. Two attorneys at the high-powered NY law firm Sullivan & Cromwell took his case on pro bono. But after the Alabama court dismissed the petition that they filed on his behalf and sent notice to them (setting off a 42 day deadline to appeal the decision to federal court), the notice got sent back unopened because the two lawyers had left the firm. Thus Maples was denied the opportunity to have his claim of inadequate representation reviewed by federal courts because of -- inadequate representation! As well as highly rigid rules in the Alabama court. If this decision is allowed to stand, what does that say about our values, raising the letter of the law above justice with the highest stakes possible on the line?

Supreme Court will hear arguments on Sullivan & Cromwell’s mailroom mixup

[vison]

What on earth can a person say? It's so terrible it is hard to believe.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Reports that I have seen on the oral argument suggest that the court is going to reverse the decision. The only justice that seemed to be siding with Alabama was Justice Scalia (big surprise there), with of course Justice Thomas giving no indication of his leaning. But Justices Kennedy and Alito, and Chief Justice Roberts, the other members of the conservative wing, all seemed to be leaning the other way, joining their more liberal colleagues.

Death Row Debate: Justice Scalia Stands Alone As Supreme Court Hears Case Of Mailroom Mix-up

[nerdanel]

Former Texas prison inmate and "last meal" chef Brian Price shares his thoughts on Texas' ending of the "last meal" custom: They are served two hours before they are executed and it is no longer a burger and fries or a bacon, lettuce and tomato sandwich or whatever they requested. All it is, two hours later, is stomach content on an autopsy report.

I found it especially touching that Price, now free, approached TDCJ to offer to prepare last meals for free and they declined. That certainly undermines their rhetoric concerning the use of taxpayer funds.

[vison]

It is just so hard to think about. I cannot think cool-headed on it.

[nerdanel]

Following the Austin Chron's excellent "Perry the Executioner" article last month, the NYT has also taken a look at Rick Perry's approach to criminal justice in Texas. The NYT article is shorter, but looks at different cases in-depth than the Chron did. I'd recommend that people who have time and interest read both.

The NYT article spells out Perry's limited responsibility for the execution process in Texas, pithily quoting one observer as saying, "All [Perry's] bluster about the death penalty is like the rooster who crows taking credit for the sun rising." However, the Times looks at the small subset of executions for which Perry is responsible - those in which he refused to follow his board's clemency recommendations.

The article also credits Perry with creating a life without parole alternative to the death penalty*, punishing hate crimes more harshly, improving indigent defense, guaranteeing access to post-conviction DNA testing, eyewitness reform testimony, and generous compensation awarded to exonerated prisons. (NB I've seen it mentioned elsewhere that Texas' law on exonerees' compensation may now be the most generous in the country.)

*Some have argued in this thread that life imprisonment without parole is also an unacceptable sanction. However, even those abolitionists who hold this view need to recognize it as a pragmatic step in death-sentencing states. Until it existed, Texas juries had to choose between death and life WITH possibility of parole - many voted for death, viewing it as their only option to ensure the defendant would never again harm another person on the streets. Creation of an LWOP option was thus, perhaps ironically, an option favorable to at least some Texas capital defendants.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/31/us/po ... odayspaper

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Thanks. A very interesting read. And evidence once more that black and white portraits are very rarely accurate.

[nerdanel]

No problem. My post may have been worded overly generously to Perry in terms of giving him credit for reforms that originated in the legislature. Obviously, his role was to sign/not veto the legislation, not necessarily any more than that. So, let me also emphasize this:

State Senator Rodney Ellis, a Democrat who has led the push for criminal justice changes, said the governor should not be given too much credit for declining to veto legislation. “We’ve had to work against the grain to get that stuff passed,” he said.

Still, some of those reforms are key - the post-conviction DNA access and compensation for exonerated prisoners were especially needed. Everyone involved deserves lots of credit.

[nerdanel]

Due to the lethal injection protocol challenge, the earliest that executions can now resume in California is 2013. It wouldn't be entirely unrealistic if the delay stretched to 2014, depending on how the appellate process unfolds.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

My remarkable friend who works in this field sent me a link to a review of a movie opening today in NY and LA (and presumably elsewhere soon) on this subject, called Into the Abyss that looks to be quite intense and could be pretty revealing. I share it here for people's possible interest.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/11/movie ... .html?_r=1

[vison]

I think it's on the list of movies proposed for the cinema club I go to now and again. I don't know if I could watch it or not. If anyone does, maybe they could review it here?

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I honestly don't know if I could watch it, either.