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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:33 pm 
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A woman who produces a comic strip that features a 14-yr. old girl protagonist did an issue around the subject of menstruation, and the trans community was enraged because the topic excludes trans men, since they don't menstruate. This woman then tried some things to make up for her lack of sensitivity [sic] but could not please the offended parties, who have labeled her a TERF (trans-exclusionary radical feminist) and transphobic. She finally deleted her twitter account and is going to discontinue the comic after two final issues (if I understood correctly).


edit

In answering Rose's post below, I realized that what I meant above is that transgender women don't menstruate.

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Last edited by Cerin on Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:45 pm 
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Oof.

My prom date discovered he's a she a few years ago. She's much happier now, living as a woman. But the reality is there are parts of being male or female that clothes and treatments can't do anything about. Menarche falls into that. And I honestly find whining from the trans community about how it's somehow "exclusive" or "hateful" to talk about this rather major and sometimes embarrassing, physically painful, and even straight-up traumatic biological rite of passage to be more than a little tiresome. And the whining that crops up around discussions of pregnancy and birth and lactation is even more tedious.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:50 pm 
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What bothers me more is that this kind of thing most likely involved a tiny number of people, maybe a few hundred, and yet the internet outrage machine will likely turn it into a far bigger thing, using it as a cudgel in the ongoing "see, isn't the left/right just awful!" culture wars. Barf.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:27 pm 
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In response to "Prince of Whales" - one of my heraldry group posted this:

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62432000_10157185341323497_8756651036153741312_n.jpg [ 21.88 KiB | Viewed 1002 times ]

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:28 pm 
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Cerin wrote:
A woman who produces a comic strip that features a 14-yr. old girl protagonist did an issue around the subject of menstruation, and the trans community was enraged because the topic excludes trans men, since they don't menstruate. This woman then tried some things to make up for her lack of sensitivity [sic] but could not please the offended parties, who have labeled her a TERF (trans-exclusionary radical feminist) and transphobic. She finally deleted her twitter account and is going to discontinue the comic after two final issues (if I understood correctly).


This is so bizarre I cannot help but think that some of the 'backlash' would be coming from trolls going for absurdity/looking for outrage & attention/creating chaos, which ties in with yov's remark about it being a few people looking to turn something-anything-into a bigger issue. Internet Outrage. Ramping up the Culture Wars. Them vs Us.. look at how crazy 'they' are. Notoriety/attention & social media intentionally driving divisiveness.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:01 pm 
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Rose, I agree with you that this is absurd, but I doubt it is trolls. I was reading/hearing somewhere that in some states hospitals do not put the word 'mother' on a birth certificate anymore, but use 'gestational parent' because 'mother' excludes transgender men. I guess that means the word 'mother' is now hate speech. Perhaps next year, 'Mother's Day' will be 'Gestational Parents Day.'

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:37 pm 
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Cerin, I thought that seemed weird (the birth certificate issue) so I looked up a law page on the subject and from a legal standpoint, it makes sense. It wouldn't only apply to the word mother but also father, additionally, there would be an optional 'parent' checkbox. (Mother __ Father __ Parent __). This is not only important for those who are transgender parents but surrogates, sperm donors, legal guardians, etc... Families come in all kinds of configurations. Birth certificates are (always? often?) changed in the case of adoption, so, not as surprising as it might seem at first.

Not only on this issue but many others, I stand by my earlier comment that social media is filled with trolls trying their best to create chaos and division and feed off of fringe ideas on all sides of the spectrum. Internet Outrage. Culture Wars. It is intended to break down society, break down democracy. Is everyone a troll? No. While I'm sure there are those who hold extreme views, there are just as many, if not more, who are more than willing to fan the flames.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:07 pm 
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California is going to use "parent giving birth" and "parent not giving birth, " with explanations. For research projects that rely on knowing whose genetic material and environmental exposure affected this pregnancy, this is very helpful. It is becoming increasingly common to see situations where one or both of mom and dad are not genetically related to the baby, and the persons of interest are the sperm donor and the surrogate mom.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 12:24 am 
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Frelga, that makes sense. I've been working on my family tree and I've had people contact me looking for their birth parents in my family line (they were adopted). It can be very complicated.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:06 am 
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Isn't the term birth mother pretty commonly accepted?

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:25 am 
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yovargas wrote:
Isn't the term birth mother pretty commonly accepted?


And Happy Holidays was perfectly fine until it was suddenly a "War on Christmas".

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:33 am 
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I didn't realize until I look up the previously linked article (along with a few others) that it's not uncommon for parents who adopt (etc..) to have the birth certificate changed. I have no experience in this arena, but I would imagine it gets legally complicated with in vitro fertilization, surrogates, etc..

Out of curiosity, I took a look at my adult daughters birth certificate. It says 'mother's name' and 'father's name' (not birth mother or birth father or biological parent). My own birth certificate (which is quite old :P ) says 'child of________&_________' (listing my parents). No father/mother, biological or otherwise designation.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:47 am 
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RoseMorninStar wrote:
My own birth certificate (which is quite old :P ) says 'child of________&_________' (listing my parents). No father/mother, biological or otherwise designation.

Returning to that seems like the most elegant (and inclusive ;)) approach. Especially given the complications that arise from ARTs. I'm not surprised that these technologies are changing how bureaucrats talk about how a family is constructed. Given that trans-gendered people are quite rare and infertile couples are not, I suspect that babies born via donated gametes and/or gestational carriers is a more common than trans men giving birth. If you've used a donor egg and/or a surrogate, who's the mom? The donor of the genetic material? The carrier of the baby? Or the one who is going to take the baby home to raise?

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:50 pm 
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yovargas wrote:
Isn't the term birth mother pretty commonly accepted?

It was commonly accepted. Now it would be considered exclusionary of transgender men who have given birth, so, hate speech.


elengil wrote:
And Happy Holidays was perfectly fine until it was suddenly a "War on Christmas".

Happy Holidays replaced Merry Christmas, which is now considered improper, so yes, war on Christmas. Can you honestly imagine anyone having a problem with Happy Hanukkah?

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:17 pm 
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Cerin wrote:
yovargas wrote:
Isn't the term birth mother pretty commonly accepted?

It was commonly accepted. Now it would be considered exclusionary of transgender men who have given birth, so, hate speech.


To be fair, I'm pretty sure only a very small part of the most hardcore trans right movement would agree with this statement.

Cerin wrote:
Happy Holidays replaced Merry Christmas, which is now considered improper, so yes, war on Christmas. Can you honestly imagine anyone having a problem with Happy Hanukkah?


It honestly wouldn't surprise me if Christians growing up in Israel got a bit irritated by it.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:55 pm 
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Cerin wrote:
Happy Holidays replaced Merry Christmas, which is now considered improper, so yes, war on Christmas. Can you honestly imagine anyone having a problem with Happy Hanukkah?


I don't have to, given the number of people who very pointedly wish me Merry Christmas when they know I'm Jewish. This is not counting people who just say it out of habit or don't know me but assume that everyone is Christian.

Yov, unlike in your imagination, in Israel Hanukkah is a relatively minor holiday. It's just that in the US, retailers realized that a portion of the population was not being visited by the Spirit of Consumerism in December, so they try to sell them stuff. Often weeks after Hanukkah is over.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:59 pm 
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Frelga wrote:
Yov, unlike in your imagination, in Israel Hanukkah is a relatively minor holiday. It's just that in the US, retailers realized that a portion of the population was not being visited by the Spirit of Consumerism in December, so they try to sell them stuff. Often weeks after Hanukkah is over.


Interesting! Just out of curiosity, where do you think it would rank insignificance in Israel on a scale of, like, arbor day to Christmas?

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:12 pm 
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yovargas wrote:
Frelga wrote:
Yov, unlike in your imagination, in Israel Hanukkah is a relatively minor holiday. It's just that in the US, retailers realized that a portion of the population was not being visited by the Spirit of Consumerism in December, so they try to sell them stuff. Often weeks after Hanukkah is over.


Interesting! Just out of curiosity, where do you think it would rank insignificance in Israel on a scale of, like, arbor day to Christmas?


Hm. I haven't actually been to Israel during Hanukkah, and the quick search I did pointed to the tourist sites, which is telling. It's a national holiday, but the businesses stay open. I'll ask my SIL when we call later today how it stacks up.

For now, I'll go with Memorial Day, since it originally commemorated a military victory, except it's not a day off. There are things you do and foods you eat, but you don't spend three months knee deep in merchandise.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:59 pm 
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'Happy Holidays' was in common usage at least as far back as the mid-1800's, it's not 'new'. Happy Holidays (and Season's Greetings) was VERY common when I was growing up waaaay before the current 'political correctness' of trying to make people say whatever it is someone else WANTS them to say. No one had a fit if they were wished 'Happy Holidays'. I (and many other people) happen to count Thanksgiving through New Years and everything in-between as 'The Holidays.' It has BECOME a (media manufactured) attack on religion, not the other way around. Good grief. Would it better for 'Happy Holidays' to be improper? I don't get it. The meanest looks and comments one gets if they are wished a 'Happy Holiday'. How is that in the spirit of anything good, kind, (or Holy)?

For what it's worth, the word 'holiday' is derived from 'Holy Day'. I'm just befuddled that anyone feels that someone wishing them Happy anything is an issue.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:42 am 
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Hanukkah is a relatively minor Jewish holiday, but at least it really is a Jewish holiday. Christmas is just the celebration of the ancient pagan mid-winter celebrations, superficially attached to the birth of Christ, even though there is no evidence that Christ was born any time near to December 25, and eventually becoming an excuse for commercialism on a vast scale, with no real connection to the teachings of Christ.

So why not say Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas?

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