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PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 1:37 am 
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Voronwë the Faithful wrote:
Passdagas the Brown wrote:

I wont talk about Tauriel because I don't feel like getting into an argument with everyone else here. However, I will say that I am totally sold on the idea of keeping Azog alive and making him a primary villain. I remember that I was the one that started the "Azog the Idiot" thread. I was the idiot.


I sure wish the nation had 300 million such " idiots".

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 1:45 am 
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Man, it almost feels like you watched a different movie than me! I don't think there was a single moment with Azog I liked or thought was interesting. Most of them I actively disliked and just in general I thought every time they cut to some scene of him being all Military General Orc Guy dragged the movie down. My imaginary fan-edit would cut out as much of him as possible!

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 1:53 am 
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I've long since been convinced that we watch different movies, yov. Case in point, you didn't even notice that there was a scene in which the other dwarves paid homage to Thorin after his death.

As for Azog, he is the most intimidating Orc that Tolkien created, the story of his killing of Thror in Appendix A is the most compelling story of an evil Orc that Tolkien created. I can see why the filmmakers would have felt that he would be a more compelling villain than Bolg, who is largely a non-entity in his appearance in The Hobbit. And I think they have done a good job of capturing that intimidating presence. And his fight with Thorin at the end is by the best one on one battle in any of the six films (although there are aspects of Bolg fighting Tauriel that I also find very compelling.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 2:02 am 
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Voronwë the Faithful wrote:
Case in point, you didn't even notice that there was a scene in which the other dwarves paid homage to Thorin after his death.


I noticed the very brief shot (wouldn't call it a "scene") of them walking up to him and some of them kneeling. Not sure why you'd bring that up now. :scratch:


In the AUJ fan-edit I watched a while back, they cut the Azog backstory entirely and much to my surprise, it made him far more menacing when he shows up in Frying Pan. It was such a huge improvement (along with a few other cuts there) that scene I'd previously rolled my eyes through became edge-of-my-seat exciting! It's an old room of thumb modern movies keep forgetting - monsters are scarier when they're mysterious. Every time Azog opens his mouth, he becomes more ordinary. No orc has ever come close to feeling as legitimately dangerous and threatening as Lurtz against Boromir, and Lurtz doesn't hardly says one damn word.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 2:20 am 
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yovargas wrote:
Voronwë the Faithful wrote:
Case in point, you didn't even notice that there was a scene in which the other dwarves paid homage to Thorin after his death.


I noticed the very brief shot (wouldn't call it a "scene") of them walking up to him and some of them kneeling. Not sure why you'd bring that up now. :scratch:


I mention it because you specifically stated that none of the dwarves so much as acknowledged Thorin's death, when in fact they did, in a very moving tableau.

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In the AUJ fan-edit I watched a while back, they cut the Azog backstory entirely and much to my surprise, it made him far more menacing when he shows up in Frying Pan. It was such a huge improvement (along with a few other cuts there) that scene I'd previously rolled my eyes through became edge-of-my-seat exciting! It's an old room of thumb modern movies keep forgetting - monsters are scarier when they're mysterious. Every time Azog opens his mouth, he becomes more ordinary. No orc has ever come close to feeling as legitimately dangerous and threatening as Lurtz against Boromir, and Lurtz doesn't hardly says one damn word.


Another example of how differently we see things. I despised that fan edit that you mentioned, and found it to be a complete mess; it was like reading a book that had many of the pages ripped out of it. And I have always found Lurtz to be ludicrously ridiculous.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 2:07 pm 
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Elen, I am assuming that the picture that you have in your signature comes under the category of "wishful thinking for something that will never happen", no? You don't have any reason to believe that that scene will actually be in the EE, do you?

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 2:11 pm 
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Until the EE comes out we don't know it "will never happen" do we? ;)

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 2:14 pm 
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That's not Lee Pace in that picture is it? It doesn't look like him to me.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 3:44 pm 
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Most certainly is...I would guess that it's a "b-t-s" shot, caught between takes!

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 5:20 pm 
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What's "b-t-s", precious?

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 6:45 pm 
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<in Sam's voice> behind-the-scenes! :D

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 9:08 pm 
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Ah, ok. But that picture is photoshopped, no? It's not actually a picture a scene being filmed in which Bilbo is presenting a gift to Thranduil, right? Because there are some things that I really don't want to get any ideas about expecting to see.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 9:26 pm 
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I wonder if the EE will offer visual explanation for the fact that while Legolas is commandeering a bat, he is shown with a hand on either leg of the creature and then when he gets over his targeted landing spot he suddenly is upside down with no real reason shown how he changed his position.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 10:14 pm 
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Voronwë the Faithful wrote:
Ah, ok. But that picture is photoshopped, no? It's not actually a picture a scene being filmed in which Bilbo is presenting a gift to Thranduil, right? Because there are some things that I really don't want to get any ideas about expecting to see.


Yes, definitely a 'shop job of Bilbo presenting the chest with Thranduil's wife's necklace from the AUJ prologue. It's nice to dream... :)

sauronsfinger wrote:
I wonder if the EE will offer visual explanation for the fact that while Legolas is commandeering a bat, he is shown with a hand on either leg of the creature and then when he gets over his targeted landing spot he suddenly is upside down with no real reason shown how he changed his position.


LOL, yeah, a real what the-? moment... maybe the upside down manoeuvre explains why he ran out of arrows later, too! ;)

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 6:41 pm 
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I don't care how Legolas flipped himself upside down.

Please, no more footage of him in the EE!


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 6:51 pm 
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Passdagas the Brown wrote:
I don't care how Legolas flipped himself upside down.


It's obvious, really: by going over the top.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:56 pm 
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Dave wins 2015.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:42 pm 
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Does anyone know if the scene with Radagast rescuing Gandalf at Dol Guldur where orcs chase the rabbit sled through the dungeons before they make their escape was actually filmed?

And what about the vision of Gandalf where he looks into a palantír and sees Smaug leading legions of orcs and creatures in battle? Was that actually filmed?

I wonder if we see the death of Alfrid? Several different scenarios were discussed and it seems a perfect scene to tie up that loose end.

The CHRONICLES book has lots more like this and its difficult to tell which were merely story ideas that were discarded or which may have ended up actually filmed and of possible use in the EE.

Another is Bombur being put in charge of the inventory of all the treasure in Erebor complete with lists made by him and detailed discussion as to how the coins were stacked.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 2:00 pm 
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I know the palantír vision was filmed, because Doug Adams mentioned seeing it in the cut of DoS he viewed in October 2013...but it was removed from the released version. There is some speculation that it might possibly have been kept over for BotFA, but personally I don't really think it would work now, because Smaug dies so early on. It would have to be used as a prologue before Lake-town, I supposed...

The business with the rabbit sled and Orc through DG could still be re-inserted, but I don't know how much of that was tied up in the discarded "Beorn at DG storyline," which may have rendered it unusable.

As for Alfrid, although part of me wants to see him get his comeuppance, I think the comic ending would detract from the other main deaths. I would favour either his story being left open-ended, or a variation on the canon death of the Master, alone and starving with his money in the wastelands much later on in the film, perhaps after the funeral, before the return journey for example.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 2:09 pm 
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As for Bombur, PB made a very particular point of saying that he will speak in the EE, so maybe she was referring to the scene SF describes.

Regarding Alfrid, I would prefer less of him rather than more, but PB seems to think he is the greatest character since Hamlet, so we'll probably get his full death scene in all it's ridiculous 'glory'.

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