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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 3:54 pm 
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This is pretty interesting to note:

Dcole4 goes on to say...

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I just watched the trailers for the first time. There were a few shots not in the movie:

Spoiler: show
-The charging rams. They are not in the film. Dain's army is entirely made of ground troops. Thorin, Kili, Fili and Dwalin ride goats up to Ravenhill but the creatures do not feature heavily beforehand.

-No cart sequence on ice. In the teaser there are a couple shots of a cart with dwarves being chased by wargs. Not in the film.

-The shot of orcs going into the worm holes in the second trailer, I don't remember that shot but perhaps I am forgetting it.

-Dwarven Balliista cross bows are not in the film. Neither are the elves firing arrows at the dwarves.

Perhaps these are saved for the EE??

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 3:55 pm 
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As with my DOS review, I will avoid the really good bits and leave those for you to discover.


Such a weird thing to do. It's like he wants to cause a panic.

I think you should dispense with the spoiler tags and we can just call this a spoiler thread.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 4:00 pm 
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He still has said a word about what I consider to be the most important stuff. And despite what he says now, his early comments about DoS were far more negative than his early comments about BotFA. I don't really take his criticisms all that seriously. There are certainly some things that I won't like, but overall I am still encouraged

Even if I am the only one. ;)

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 4:20 pm 
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And I am already seeing things that undermine the things that he talks about that he doesn't like. He says in his review that there is a kiss between Tauriel and Kili, but in actuality he confirms later that she kisses him after he is dead (like Aragorn and Boromir). Big, big difference than an romantic kiss between two living souls.

I've asked him if there is a scene that is at all like Thorin's final words to Bilbo in the book. We'll see if he even answers.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 4:25 pm 
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Oh, and PtB you were right again and I was wrong, Bilbo does get knocked unconscious.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 4:43 pm 
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Regarding the love-triangle...

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Yes the love triangle is still there. Kili confesses he loves Tauriel in dwarvish. Legolas later says he loves Tauriel when discussing his father with her.

The whole Kili / Tauriel thing is under developed and misplaced use of dramatic development. I don't buy that they love each other. It's a much bigger part of their characters in this film, and it particularly undermines Tauriel's character. I liked her character in DOS but really feel like they gave her and Legolas too much screen time in this one, at such an important part of the story. The focus in these films should have been the dwarves. AUJ did this beautifully. It's a shame that PJ feels the need to make Legolas such a pronounced presence in this film. His arc is undercooked, and honestly doesn't add anything to what we see in LOTR. A much smaller supporting role to Thranduil's character would have been better...

...Tauriel falls for Kili. Why they play up the Legolas angle is unknown. Can he not feel for her as a friend and companion? Does he need to love her? It's a cheap gimmick and doesn't go anywhere.



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As said before, I will only focus on the bad bits, because it'll help soften the blow. I won't spoil the good bits, which are plentiful in the first 2/3 of the film. Bilbo has a lot of nice scenes. This film has a solid story and through-line. The misfortunate is that it stumbles at what should be the most emotional part of the movie.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 4:48 pm 
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Voronwë the Faithful wrote:
And I am already seeing things that undermine the things that he talks about that he doesn't like. He says in his review that there is a kiss between Tauriel and Kili, but in actuality he confirms later that she kisses him after he is dead (like Aragorn and Boromir). Big, big difference than an romantic kiss between two living souls.

I've asked him if there is a scene that is at all like Thorin's final words to Bilbo in the book. We'll see if he even answers.


:)
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Response to Voronwë


Yes, there is a nice scene between Thorin and Bilbo that closely resembles the book. the problem for me was that the build up to this moment (i.e. the duel) was so lavish that it was hard for me really feel for Thorin. The fight is played more for action than emotion.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 5:04 pm 
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I doubt that anything in the fight will be more ridiculous than the green scrubbing bubbles in ROTK. If that didn't ruin the emotion in that film for me, I doubt that the fight scenes will for me in this film. About the only thing that would have given me cause to worry would have been if he had answered negatively to my question. Instead, he confirmed that (as they tend to do) the most iconic scene is true to the book.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 5:09 pm 
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Just to show that I am not a total fan boy, the reference to Aragorn sounds incredibly stupid, given that even taking into account the missing 17 years, he is at most a very young man at this point. I'm pretty sure I will dislike a lot of Legolas's stunts and some of the silly love triangle, and maybe Thorin's battle with Azog, but I doubt any of that will ruin the film for me, if everything else is as good as I hope. And it will be fun to look forward to the EE.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 5:28 pm 
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Just watched the "exclusive clip" they played for the live stream of the premier. Just a short snippet from the battle. Can't tell much, but you do get to see a little of Thranduil fighting on his Elk.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 6:27 pm 
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Missed the clip... :(


More on Dol Guldur:

Quote:
SUPER SPOILERS


-Gandalf in cage, hears Radagast spell (reuses shot of Radagast in AUJ when house is attacked by spiders)
- Galadriel Voice Over, we see her enter Dol Guldur
-Orc (original Bolg costume) knocks cage to ground, lifts Gandalf out to beat him.
-Galadriel uses her magic to kill the orc (the shot from one of the tv spots)
-She carries Gandalf. On the way out, they're surrounded by the nine. Elrond and Saruman enter and fight the nine as Galadriel heals Gandalf.
-Radagast enters, they lift Gandalf onto the sled and they escape.
-Saruman and Elrond kick the nine's ass. Sauron enters, Galadriel uses her magic to cast him back (very cool visual, less show-y than the Gandalf duel in DOS)
-Gandalf and Radagast see Sauron cast out as they sled away
-Short dialogue between White Counsel discussing whether to warn Gondor. Saruman says he will handle Sauron, telling the elves to go back to their homes.

10 minutes seems too generous. I'd say 7 minutes or so. It doesn't feel shortchanged at all. It's a great scene. If there is more in the EE, all the better, but nothing to be disappointed about.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:58 pm 
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New rule:

Go into the film expecting a disastrously botched ending to Thorin, Fili and Kili, and you just might enjoy it!

V-man,

I already knew I was right, but thanks for the confirmation. :)


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 8:02 pm 
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Voronwë the Faithful wrote:
Just watched the "exclusive clip" they played for the live stream of the premier. Just a short snippet from the battle. Can't tell much, but you do get to see a little of Thranduil fighting on his Elk.


I actually like that the orcs have a visual means of translating their commanders' orders. Was always bothered by the "how in the world can his whole army hear him without a megaphone?" phenomenon. Still, looks a little over-CGId.

I'm still looking forward to the film, but frankly, have already shifted my geek-anticipation to Star Wars and the next season of Game of Thrones.

PJ was given a shot, and he took it. And now I'm ready to forget all about it.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 8:20 pm 
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Passdagas the Brown wrote:
I already knew I was right, but thanks for the confirmation. :)


Strangely enough, I actually did realize that you know how to read! ;) But I still thought it was worth noting.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 8:33 pm 
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Voronwë the Faithful wrote:
Just watched the "exclusive clip" they played for the live stream of the premier. Just a short snippet from the battle. Can't tell much, but you do get to see a little of Thranduil fighting on his Elk.



et voilà...


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 8:36 pm 
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Really trying to evoke memories of King, huh?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 8:38 pm 
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Voronwë the Faithful wrote:
Passdagas the Brown wrote:
I already knew I was right, but thanks for the confirmation. :)


Strangely enough, I actually did realize that you know how to read! ;) But I still thought it was worth noting.


No, no, no. I knew I was right before it was confirmed by anybody. It's called amazing intuition about Peter Jackson. I've known him for some time now. :)


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 8:42 pm 
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Thanks, Elen. I think that is somewhat truncated from what I saw, but it definitely gives the flavor. And Dave, I had the same thought. Still, I like what I see, particularly Thranduil (and the trolls carrying the boulders on their backs).

PtB, :).

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 10:11 pm 
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:)

By the way, can someone ask this Dcole chap to comment on whether or not the ravens are in?

ETA: I love how autocorrect assumes that when I say "ravens," I mean the American football team, therefore making it a proper, capitalized noun. I suppose talking about actual ravens has fallen out of fashion.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 10:19 pm 
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I seriously doubt that we will see any ravens before the EE, if ever.

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