Take me out to the ballgame!

[Primula Baggins]

Sass, I don't know what vison got, but what they load me up on is mostly dexamethasone, and yes, the doses are very high—you start high doses a day or two before chemo, get a load of them IV with chemo, and then taper off afterwards for a few more days.

Though vison probably got still more, as she was taking taxol and I'm on taxotere which is "milder" (though it's giving me hell ).

[JewelSong]

But more importantly, Prim - has your batting average improved?

[vison]

I got Dexamethasone, too. The regime was different, but I guess the effects were the same. Mind you, the "good" feelings from Dexamethasone were more or less eclipsed by the pukey feeling. But Prim, I didn't get it with the Taxol at all! With the Taxol I got an anti-histamine by IV, but it didn't work as well as the one by mouth. The Taxol didn't cause much nausea, but man it was horrible, horrible stuff. I think you are having a tougher time than I did, maybe because your treatments are closer together? And they're giving you all the drugs at once, whereas mine were broken up into two sessions. It sux, Prim. I wish I could send you some "expertise"! Only there isn't any, you just have to plod along.

Sassafras, I know what you're saying, and I guess it's going to be nearly impossible to stop it. I really don't know how it can be stopped, it is hardly possible to test every athlete every day. Besides, the drug doctors are lightyears ahead of the testing doctors, anyway.

My grandsons play baseball. They are only little boys, but they are talented athletes with a great deal of natural ability. Still, we don't look at them and think, "Oh, they're going to be professional athletes!" Not on your nelly, I can tell you that. Because there are already boys of 14 and 15 doing drugs to play ball and hockey, and that is AWFUL. I know a woman who thought her then 10 year old son was "too little" and she went out and bought all these protein powders and supplements, etc., to beef him up, imagine. I wonder if she has any idea at all what messages she's giving the kid? And I would be willing to bet that if someone comes along with some drugs and says, "They won't hurt him! What the heck, eh? You want him on the team or not?" she and her husband will get all dazzled and go for it. Or the kid will do it on his own. They actually talk about his "career" and this boy is going to be 13 next month. I could weep.

We have a friend who was on a Canadian Olympic team, but since he absolutely refused to do drugs, he got cut. Not exactly because he wouldn't do drugs, but because he got beat all the time by those who do. So what can be done? Even people in obscure sports use performance enhancing drugs.

I remember very plainly the fuss over Ben Johnson when he had his gold medal taken away in Korea. And they gave it to Carl Lewis! I tell you, the hypocrisy of these people knows no bounds.

[JewelSong]

"Buy me some steriods and protein drink!
I don't care if I land in the clink..."

Now, there's a Filk begging to be written.

[truehobbit]

Hobby, I will certainly be interested in discussing the World Cup this summer.

Ah, well, I probably won't have much to say about it - I was just trying to bait people to visit me for the occasion! Would much rather discuss it right here and in person with you!

Sassy, Jewel has also threatened me with a ball-game when I go to visit her!
You'd have to explain what a "designated hitter" is, though! And lots of other things besides!

[Sassafras]

The steroid 'problem' will not go away until the hypocrisy is exposed and those who profit from all of the different sports are willing to accept a (possibly years of ) revenue reduction as the public stays away when sports becomes far less spectacular. In order to accomplish steroid-free sports it would require massive re-education, an informed lowering of public expectation and a different achievement mind-set for individual athletes.

It's not gonna happen.


vison, the Dexamethasone you and Prim are taking is a catabolic steroid, not an anabolic. There is absolutely, positively, no way muscle can be built using a catabolic. It breaks muscle tissue down. It is a synthesis of cortisol, produced by the adrenal glands, and is used short term to reduce severe inflammatory reactions.

Anabolic steroids are testosterone based and work by increasing red blood cells by as much as 30%, thereby increasing blood flow to the muscles and shortening recovery time.

So no, Jewel. Prim's batting average will decline with consistent dexamethosone use.

Hobby, a designated hitter is a batter who takes the pitchers place in the lineup. It makes the game more exciting, IMO. In the National League <spit> the pitcher comes up to bat. Most pitchers are awful batters and usually bat ninth, or last, in the lineup.

All clear now?

[vison]

vison, the Dexamethasone you and Prim are taking is a catabolic steroid, not an anabolic. There is absolutely, positively, no way muscle can be built using a catabolic. It breaks muscle tissue down. It is a synthesis of cortisol, produced by the adrenal glands, and is used short term to reduce severe inflammatory reactions.

Wow, thanks for the info! That's great. I might have been told this by the nurses in the chemo lab, actually, but a lot of what I got told there sorta washed away.........

Still, there was an incredible burst of energy and well-being -- in between the bouts of nausea. I asked about it, and they said it was normal, and caused by the drugs. I just assumed it was "the steroids", and maybe it wasn't that at all. Or, maybe it was all in my head.

Yes, you are right about drugs in sports. I wonder when the issue of "bionics" is going to arise? I remember some nifty scifi on this subject, when guys with artificial hearts and limbs showed up to compete with "animal" humans.

[Griffon64]

It is IMHO the pitcher batting ninth that makes the game so spectacular in NL leagues, Sass

Interesting though, that the DH is like steriods for the team then. More spectacle! More big hits!

I prefer the strategy of the pitcher batting. Will he bunt? Strike out? Get a bloop single? How to prevent the first two? Will he hit for extra bases and embarass his opposite number?

Pitcher on deck, two outs ... try going big instead of getting on base, since he's probably not going to drive you in ... pitcher in the hole, one out? Watch out, if you stop off on first he may ground into a double play and take you both out ... or just get on base and hope for the best ...

Lots more exciting, to me. Every bloke wielding the bat for a big hit is not as much fun as a rally that extends itself in all kinds of unlikely ways until the innings have produced six or seven runs

[Faramond]

What Griff said!

A brilliant defense of the NL and of pitchers batting.

Also, of course, there is the matter of when you will hit for a pitcher or leave him in. And being forced to have a more versatile bench because of all the double switching you ought to be doing. And not being able to get away with having bad defensive players in the lineup at no cost.

[Sassafras]

Phooey!



I'm going to take a nap and come back with an incredibly informative and witty response guaranteed to dazzle you both.

[vison]

Phooey right back. If you are on a baseball team you are there to play Baseball. That means you take your turn at bat, or you are a weenie.

Just sayin'.

[Griffon64]

Phooey!



I'm going to take a nap and come back with an incredibly informative and witty response guaranteed to dazzle you both.

This just made me laugh out loud

Make that nap a strong one

And totally what vison said. This thing with hiding away leaden-gloved guys as the DH ... that's what first base is already for! You can't just have the fun of the game! Because for me trying to blast the leather off the ball is the fun. Fielding is a neccesary evil. Pitching is only there because everybody wants to HIT the ball but they can't unless someone throws it/bowls it! ( talking from personal cricket playing experience, and a bit of swinging the baseball bat while in America )

[Alatar]

I'm with John Cleese on this one.

If I recall correctly, he was asked the difference between the British and Americans.

He said there were three basic differences.

1. We speak English
2. When you meet our head of state you only have to kiss here hand
3. When we have a World Series we invite other countries...

(Not that I consider myself British you understand, but for the purpose of this post I can pretend)

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Only someone who thinks that Mickey Mantle was a better overall baseball player then Willie Mays could think that the designated hitter was anything other then evil, Evil, EVIL!!!!!1111

The only thing more ridiculous then the designated hitter rule is the fact that the two leagues have different rules. How incredibly ridiculous is that?

Edited to add:

[truehobbit]

Hobby, a designated hitter is a batter who takes the pitchers place in the lineup. It makes the game more exciting, IMO. In the National League <spit> the pitcher comes up to bat. Most pitchers are awful batters and usually bat ninth, or last, in the lineup.

All clear now?

Clear as pea soup, Sassy!

And, what Alatar said!

[Sassafras]

Sass: Oh! Come and see the violence inherent in the system!
Help! Help! I'm being repressed!

National Leaguers: Bloody peasant!

Sass: Oh, what a give-away. Did you hear that? Did you hear that, eh? That's what I'm on about.
Did you see them repressing me? You saw it, didn't you?

[vison]

Alatar, as far as "The World Series" goes, there are conflicting tales. The one I always used to accept was that a newspaper in New York, The New York World, sponsored a baseball tournament and it was known as "The World Series". Now, revisionists have written that this is buncombe (like that old fashioned spelling?). I don't know, myself, whether it's a true story or not.

I think it is, but am willing to be taught differently. If someone can come up with real proof that it's not true.

No one really thought/thinks that "The World Series" means: "The Whole World, as in the Planet Earth Series".

[Sassafras]

From the official rules of MLB:

The Designated Hitter rule:
A hitter may be designated to bat for the starting pitcher and all subsequent pitchers in any game without otherwise affecting the status of the pitcher(s) in the game. A Designated Hitter for the pitcher must be selected prior to the game and must be included in the lineup cards presented to the Umpire-in-Chief.

The Designated Hitter named in the starting lineup must come to bat at least one time, unless the opposing club changes pitchers. It is not mandatory that a club designate a hitter for the pitcher, but failure to do so prior to the game precludes the use of a Designated Hitter for that game.

Pinch hitters for a Designated Hitter may be used. Any substitute hitter for a Designated Hitter himself becomes a Designated Hitter. A replaced Designated Hitter shall not re-enter the game in any capacity. The Designated Hitter may be used defensively, continuing to bat in the same position in the batting order, but the pitcher must then bat in the place of the substituted defensive player, unless more than one substitution is made, and the manager then must designate their spots in the batting order.

A runner may be substituted for the Designated Hitter and the runner assumes the role of the Designated Hitter.

A Designated Hitter is "locked" into the batting order. No multiple substitutions may be made that will alter the batting rotation of the Designated Hitter.

Once the game pitcher is switched from the mound to a defensive position this move shall terminate the DH role for the remainder of the game. Once a pinch-hitter bats for any player in the batting order and then enters the game to pitch, this move shall terminate the Designated Hitter role for the remainder of the game.

Once a Designated Hitter assumes a defensive position this move shall terminate the Designated Hitter role for the remainder of the game.

Mike Scioscia on the Designated Hitter Rule:

I don't think there's differences as maybe — or the, you know, the — you know, the separation of two leagues, I don't think it's as great as a lot of people speculate it is. I think you try to look at the talents of your club and use all the assets you have. There are certainly clubs in our league that play even more of a — what would be called a "National style" than we do. There's certainly clubs in the National League that sit back and play more of an American League style. The one thing at first I was very, very anti designated hitter, you know, coming from the National League. The one thing I found after working with it for three years is not only the offense opens up on another bat, but the little ball opens up. That's really almost contradictory to a designated hitter philosophy, where you think you have a big bat in the line-up. We can do more things in the American League, particularly as you approach the bottom third or bottom half of your order than you can in the National League because of the pitcher's spot. It creates more little ball in the American League than maybe might be on the surface and I think our club has, you know, been an indication of that." - Anaheim Angels Manager Mike Scioscia (October 1, 2002)

[Faramond]

What I still haven't seen is a justification for a player batting the entire game but never taking the field.

The crime of the DH isn't that it removes strategy, though it certainly does that. The crime of the DH is that the symmetry of offense and defense inherent in baseball is lost. If you want to play on defense, you have to play on offense, and if you want to play on offense, you have to play on defense. If you're a liability on offense or defense, then that liablity will be shown up in the game if you want to stay in the game. It can't be hidden or wished away by a rule of convenience. If you are such a liability on offense or defense that you must be removed from that role at a certain time in the game, then you are removed from the game for good.

The problem with the essay that Sass had in her post and then took out and confused the hell out of me with is that it is wrong. The pitcher's job is not solely defensive, though the authour seems to think that declaring that it is by fiat is a good idea. It has taken a special rule to make the pitchers job purely defensive in one league, of course.

Hockey and football have nothing to do with baseball. Should baseball emulate football and have a batting order entirely diffent from the players who take the field? Why not have 9 designated hitters, with a roster of 40? Surely as a result the quality of both the hitting and fielding would go up, because we would have specialists at every position! Indeed, how can the proponent of the DH object to this? Why not have a DH for catchers, who are typically not great hitters either? What about for light hitting shortstops?

A pitcher who is a better hitter than his counterpart deserves to have this advantage present in the game. Pitchers get hits sometimes. They do. They even hit home runs. They lay down sacrifice bunts sometimes. Giving up an RBI hit to a pitcher is one of the most crushing things that can happen to a team, and this maddening form of humiliation should not be removed from the game!

[Sassafras]

Faramond wrote ....Giving up an RBI hit to a pitcher is one of the most crushing things that can happen to a team, and this maddening form of humiliation should not be removed from the game!

Ah, so the truth finally emerges.
Sadist!!!!



Dear Faramond, she said indulgently, I removed the essay you quoted for just such reasons you stated and replaced it by a short dissertation by Mike Scioscia.

Truthfully, I believe that the DH rule is a matter of personal preference and I also believe that plenty of strategy remains in AL games. A DH may be replaced with a pinch hitter and pinch runners are still used. Batters continue to use the bunt. Managers continue to make decisions on how to play the outfield and still signal whether a batter should make contact or not. I realize I'm in the minority here, a veritable lamb amongst all of you purist lions nevertheless I disagree with your opinion that the symmetry of the game is destroyed by the DH.

As you know, the rule was introduced in 1973 to bolster lacklustre offence and sagging attendance ... well, it worked..... introducing more power into the lineups and making the game more exciting for baseball revisionists. I like the adrenalin rush of power hitting and that, coupled with the fact that I support an AL team, means that, by default, I support the DH rule.

Oh, and you have had an unfair influence upon La Griff.
Have you taken her to an AL game?
No? I thought not.

That will need to be remedied.

Just sayin'