Take me out to the ballgame!

[Sassafras]

I am completely convinced that Barry Bonds is the best hitter that the game of baseball has ever seen,

Better than Ted Williams? Better than the Babe?

I mean, you have to take into consideration the fact that today's athletes are better informed about nutrition, weight-training, (Bet the Babe lifted nothing heavier than a whiskey glass or a hot dog ) cardio, the necessity of adequate rest etc.

If you level the playing field in that respect I wonder how Bonds (who has most definitely, beyond a shadow of a doubt, maximized his admittedly amazing talent through steroids) would measure up?
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Are you saying that tp is a seer?
Could be.
Multiple dimensions and all that.



Or I hit edit instead of quote.

[JewelSong]

I despise Barry Bonds. I think he is a disgrace to the game, honestly. The whole steriod-thing really turned me off, especially his "poor me" attitude afterwards.

I still love the Babe...he just got out there and hit the damn ball.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I figured someone would say that.

Of course the image that the media paints isn't always the full picture.

[Griffon64]

Hmmmm ... did this thread die with a mention of Barry Bonds?

Can't have that!

For myself, I've watched Bonds play in SBC Park ( the Dodgers lost that one ) and yes, he certainly can hit the ball. I saw him ground out to second base on TV and that was the hardest I've ever seen a baseball hit.

I don't doubt that he used steriods myself, either. The physical change in him looking at photos is suspicious.

He has heaps of talent. Why use steriods on top of that? How do you feel proud of achievements you got by cheating?

Maybe, of course, he really didn't use them. Either way, for me he is tainted, and it is a pity that what is undoubtedly a great talent, now has a taint on his name, and often a divisive effect where people talk baseball.

As for my own team, I'm a Dodger supporter. Thank Faramond for that

I detest the DH. But that's because I come from a cricket background, and we don't cottonwool the bowlers They get right out there and face a 90 miles an hour ball that may be directed at their bodies. They don't get to walk out of the line of fire after being hit

I love the atmosphere of a ballgame. I would love attending as much as I can, even minor league games. Pity Bakersfield's ballpark wasn't designed with a mind to the setting sun

[Faramond]

Griff can thank me for being a Dodger supporter ... I guess. They were bloody awful last year.

Yes, Griff and I saw Barry hit one into the water at the game we were at. We were sitting high up on the first base side, so we a perfect view of the trajectory. It was probably the hardest hit homerun I've ever seen in person.

SBC park was nice, but I like Dodger Stadium better. For one thing, Dodger Stadium isn't filled with uncouth Giants fans.

[JewelSong]

There is nothing like being at a ballgame in person...and some of the minor league stadiums are very nice - plus you are much closer to the action!

There is a Single A here up in Lowell (The Lowell Spinners) and they have a very nice little stadium - seats about 5,000 people and they sell local beer! You pay $5.50 for a box seat! The single A teams are more like college ball.

Then there are the Portland Seadogs up in Maine...they play a bit closer to the "real thing". And of course, the Pawtucket Red Sox (The "PawSox" have a lovely field (McCoy Stadium) and some folks follow them very closely. They have the distinction of having played the longest game in professional baseball - 33 innings long!

[Whistler]

I'll tell you how clueless I am about sports.

Once I went to a football game. I decided to listen to the game on radio headphones because I can never make heads or tails of it without the announcers.

I did this for a while, but it didn't help much. Finally I recognized the problem: I was tuned to the wrong channel.

And listening to baseball.

[Sassafras]

So, how long exactly did it take you to realize there were no batters on the field?

[Whistler]

It's not funny.

[JewelSong]

Whistler, don't feel embarassed. It could happen to anyone. Honestly.

What you need is a few obvious clues to tell the difference. I mean, both sports end in the word "ball" so it's easy to see how someone could become confused.

BASE ball has, like, BASES. And the ball is round and white. The players stand around and wait for the ball to come to them. And while they are waiting, they spit. And...um...there is this long thing called a BAT that the batter uses to try and hit the ball. When he does, he gets to run around the white, square BASES.

FOOT ball has...well, they do kick the thing a couple of times a game. But the ball is brown and big and kind of oblong-shaped. And the players jump on top of each other a lot and also pat each other's bums frequently. And there are goal posts at either end of the field.

That's probably enough for the first lesson.

[Whistler]

Never mind all that. Which one has cheerleaders?

[truehobbit]

FOOT ball has...well, they do kick the thing a couple of times a game. But the ball is brown and big and kind of oblong-shaped.

Um, no. In real football, the ball is round and white, too!

And there are no cheerleaders in real football.

[Primula Baggins]

Hobby, now Whistler's never going to figure it out.

[truehobbit]

Well, you could all come over here to the Football World Championship in summer to learn about real football - the rest, I'm sure, will just fall into place then!

[Sassafras]

Or ... you could come over to America, Hobby, and I could take you to a real baseball game.

An American league game.

With a designated hitter.

<ducks flying objects>


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Any guesses where Rocket (Clemens) will end up next year?
a.) Yankees.
b.) Red Sux.
c.) Astros.
d.) At home.
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There's an interesting conversation going on now on the Yankee boards discussing who was the better all around ball player .... Mickey Mantle or Willie Mays. My vote has to go to The Mick ... for obvious reasons.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Hobby, I will certainly be interested in discussing the World Cup this summer.

[JewelSong]

Mickey Mantle for hitting.
Mays for fields.

Clemens:
e) retired

[Voronwë the Faithful]

There's an interesting conversation going on now on the Yankee boards discussing who was the better all around ball player .... Mickey Mantle or Willie Mays. My vote has to go to The Mick ... for obvious reasons.

This is a discussion that could only take place on a Yankee board, because no one other then a Yankee fan would even think to consider that Mickey Mantle could be compared as an overall ballplayer to Willie Mays.

The only advantages that the Mick had was being a switchhitter and being able to hit the ball a mile. But for consistently hitting for average and power, longevity, fielding, base-running (not just stolen bases, which are overrated, but making the most out situations when it counted the most), the Say Hey Kid is way ahead.

But then he beats out anyone else, too. I think for sure he was the greatest ever to play the game.

And he's Barry's god-father.

[vison]

I most emphatically disagree about steroids. Barry Bonds might indeed be the best hitter baseball has ever seen, but I'll never believe it. His hitting power is tarnished forever in my eyes.

My own brief experience with steroids, while I was on chemo, really opened my eyes to their lure, let me tell you. I have no athletic ability, don't get me wrong. But the sensation of power, of strength, the appetite, the energy, were incredible! No wonder an athlete will be tempted. Steroids can't bestow skill or talent, but they sure as heck bestow energy and power, and if that increased energy and power are added to talent and skill, then you have a whole new ballgame, pardon the pun.

I also know a number of young guys who do steroids. I can't stand to see what it's done to these men, to be honest. One fellow in particular, who had a beautiful body before he started to bulk up, looks like a monstrous puffball right now. He had a lovely lithe male physique, with sloping shoulders and a graceful way of moving that is now completely obliterated. He isn't a competitive weightlifter or bodybuilder, either, he did it because he wanted to be bigger, more intimidating on the ice. He used to look like Wayne Gretzky on the ice, now he looks like that guy that played The Hulk. One other guy stopped doing steroids because he started having impotence problems.

But all of that is beside the point, really. The point to me is that it sets such a dreadful example to young athletes coming up. Kids catch on very fast to the truth that they will NEVER get on the Olympic track team if they don't do drugs, or into professional baseball or football. Or swimming. Any sport requiring strength and agility and speed. All the drug testing in the world is little good, since the tests are always so far behind the drug use itself. The cynicism is terrible. Everyone is "known" to use drugs, even if they don't.

I really don't know how it can be stopped. But one way to make a start is to kick drug users out of professional sports. OUT. Gone. Look at Pete Rose, for heaven's sake! I don't think his "crime" was half as bad as men like Barry Bonds, or the other creep who sat and lied through his shiny white teeth to Congress.

*sigh* I know. The money involved is too much, the prestige and fame. If I was some hotshot pitcher from Bugtussle, Saskatchewan, and I could get into the bigs by using steroids, I probably would, too. But I don't think we should say, "It's overblown." It isn't.

[Sassafras]

My own brief experience with steroids, while I was on chemo, really opened my eyes to their lure, let me tell you. I have no athletic ability, don't get me wrong. But the sensation of power, of strength, the appetite, the energy, were incredible!

You must have been given very high doses, then.
Do you happen to know the name of the drug(s)? And whether they were catabolic or anabolic?

I do agree with you that anabolic steroid use is common in all sports, amateur and professional, and have been for at least three decades. The problem, as I see it, is that athletes are rewarded for being better, bigger, faster, stronger because the public wants to see more home runs, more goals scored, more track records broken ... and so they flock to sporting events, which makes more money for the owners, the advertisers, the tv/radio stations.
There is an enormous amount of hypocrisy in sports. Everyone knows that drugs have to be taken in order to succeed. The players know it. The owners know it. The various sports commissioners know it. The only ones who don't really know it are the general public.

Bottom line: it's all about the money. Sports is a business.

As for Bonds accomplishments being tainted by steroid usage. I disagree. You'd probably eliminate the records at least three quarters of all professional baseball players if you discounted those who used performance enhancing drugs.

Note: I've been involved in the competative bodybuilding world for over 20 years and I know a great deal about how steroids work and the effects they have on the mind and the body.