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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 9:53 pm 
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So, Gandalf is speculating?


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 10:04 pm 
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Gandalf Re: Saruman?

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 11:10 pm 
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To bring it to the new page:

Quote:
At best, he is playing with the idea of handing it over to the care of others.


I wouldn't say he's speculating, he's stating what he believes is a fact. The "he" in the quote could refer to more than one person - Gandalf is describing a pattern. If that helps.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:05 am 
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At the White Council?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:53 am 
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No.

Do we have any dialogue from a White Council meeting? I can't think of any...

But this quote was not spoken there.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 2:39 am 
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Is he Sauron?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 2:47 am 
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Jude wrote:
Do we have any dialogue from a White Council meeting? I can't think of any...


Another sign that it time for another reading of Unfinished Tales ;)

Tolkien, in The Hunt for the Ring, (iii) Concerning Gandalf, Saruman and the Shire wrote:
Now because of his dislike and fear, in the later days Saruman avoided Gandalf, and they seldom met, except at the assemblies of the White Council. It was at the great Council held in 2851 that the "Halflings' leaf" was first spoken of, and the matter was noted with amusement at the time, though it was afterwards remembered in a different light. The Council met in Rivendell, and Gandalf sat apart, silent, but smoking prodigiously (a thing he had never done before on such an occasion), while Saruman spoke against him, and urged that contrary to Gandalf's advice Dol Guldur should not yet be molested. Both the silence and the smoke seemed greatly to annoy Saruman, and before the Council dispersed be said to Gandalf: "When weighty matters are in debate, Mithrandir, I wonder a little that you should play with your toys of fire and smoke, while others are in earnest speech."

But Gandalf laughed, and replied: "You would not wonder if you used this herb yourself. Yon might find that smoke blown out cleared your mind of shadows within. Anyway, it gives patience, to listen to error without anger. But it is not one of my toys. It is an art of the Little People away in the West: merry and worthy folk, though not of much account, perhaps, in your high policies."

Saruman was little appeased by this answer (for he hated mockery, however gentle), and he said then coldly: "You jest, Lord Mithrandir, as is your way. I know well enough that you have become a curious explorer of the small: weeds, wild things and childish folk. Your time is your own to spend, if you have nothing worthier to do; and your friends you may make as you please. But to me the days are too dark for wanderers' tales, and I have no time for the simples of peasants."

Gandalf did not laugh again; and he did not answer, but looking keenly at Saruman he drew on his pipe and sent out a great ring of smoke with many smaller rings that followed it. Then he put up his hand, as if to grasp them, and they vanished. With that he got up and left Saruman without another word; but Saruman stood for some time silent, and his face was dark with doubt and displeasure.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 3:14 am 
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Tolkienl wrote:
Anyway, it gives patience, to listen to error without anger.


I need to get me some of that weed.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:07 am 
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I'm adding Unfinished Tales to the already-huge pile of books on my table to read or re-read.

"He" doesn't refer to Sauron. Maybe I wasn't clear enough, but "he" is not one single person. Gandalf is describing a pattern, and using "he" as the pronoun.

For example, "Faithless is he that says farewell when the path darkens" - you wouldn't ask to whom "he" refers to.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 12:59 pm 
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Gandalf to Frodo in Shadow of the Past?

"At most he plays with the idea of handing it on to someone else’s care"

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:48 pm 
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That's the one!

I was reminded of this quote when I speculated on whether Isildur would actually carry through on his plan to give the Ring to the keepers of the Three. According to Gandalf, probably not.

Anyway, your turn!

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 3:36 pm 
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This is the last race! Even if the sun shines outside, you can escape.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 4:36 pm 
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Is race in the original?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:50 am 
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It is!

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:44 pm 
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This must be Gandalf in Moria:

Quote:
Now for the last race! If the sun is shining outside, we may still escape!

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:55 pm 
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Yep!

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 2:46 pm 
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New quote:

Quote:
And I don't sit down. It doesn't bend much, hmm.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 2:53 pm 
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Jude wrote:
New quote:

Quote:
And I don't sit down. It doesn't bend much, hmm.


Must be Treebeard, no? Probably speaking to Merry and Pippin?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:03 pm 
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Yes. Can you provide the quote?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:05 pm 
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Probably tonight lol

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The dumbest thing I've ever bought
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"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF


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