The Beatles Threadology

Post by **Holbytla** » Sun May 08, 2011 9:44 pm

After decades or so of hearing Beatles music (I am 50 years old and I have been spoon fed Beatles music since the cradle), I am convinced that they had their peak during the Help! album. I think maybe A Hard Days Night, may be my favorite "album", but I think there was a culmination of writing, musicianship, engineering, and production on Help! that cannot be beat or wasn't surpassed in all of their reporoire. The engineering and writing and production values on Help! all seemed to peak at the same time given the age of music and what it had to offer then.

And most importantly to me, it seemed that things were still fun then and their songs reflected that feeling.

Post by **yovargas** » Sun May 08, 2011 10:20 pm

Funny, to me Help! marks the end of their annoyingly corny early era. It's on Rubber Soul that they start becoming occasionally enjoyable. IMO.

Post by **axordil** » Sun May 08, 2011 10:33 pm

It's an interesting period, Help into Rubber Soul. Lennon and McCartney had both broadened their songwriting skills beyond romantic pop ballads and rock'n'roll A sides. George was just beginning to write decent stuff. The band was tired of touring but not off it just yet. The studio work had not yet come to dominate their creative life.

The transition between those two albums, though, is huge, and I think more on the lyrical side than on the purely musical side. Compare:

When I was younger, so much younger than today
I never needed anybody's help in any way
But now those days are gone, I'm not so self-assured
I know I need you like I've never done before

TO

I once had a girl, or should I say, she once had me
She showed me her room, isn't it good Norwegian Wood?
She asked me to stay and she told me to sit anywhere
So I looked around and I noticed there wasn't a chair

On the Paul side of the dyad, compare:

Yesterday all my troubles seemed so far away
Now it looks as though they're here to stay
Oh I believe in yesterday

TO

I'm looking through you
Where did you go?
I thought I knew you
What did I know?
The only difference is you're down there
I'm looking through you
And you're nowhere

Tonally RS is more upbeat, even when the subject matter isn't. It's also more sophisticated and less straightforward, lyrically. Lennon and McCartney were already tunesmiths--this is about the time they really seem to have started paying attention to the word.

Crossposted with yov--and you know, I understand both his and Holby's point of view. There's something liminal about these two albums. I've always thought of Help! as the last early period album and RS as the first middle period album.

Post by **yovargas** » Sun May 08, 2011 11:21 pm

I don't know if I truly enjoy any Beatles song before they wrote Norwegian Wood.

Post by **Holbytla** » Mon May 09, 2011 12:01 am

Ah but the funny thing is what they recorded and when.

The recording sessions may appear to be cohesive, but the albums may not have been.

Their releases were not absolutely concordant with dates in which they were recorded.

Post by **axordil** » Mon May 09, 2011 12:27 am

Rubber Soul was the first of the albums, I believe, where the album was more or less done in concurrent sessions over a block of time. I think they patched in one song recorded earlier, but other than that it was pretty cohesive.

Post by **Holbytla** » Mon May 09, 2011 12:36 am

Hmm I guess it depends on if you are talking American albums or British ones.
Even so, there is a distinctive set of recording sessions that are not totally conducive to album releases.

There is/was a web site out there that I can no longer find that detailed the recording sessions by date as opposed to album releases.

I have the url on an old not working hard drive, and other than some suspect pics from a certain Florida m00t, that is the one item I woulld dearly love to recapture.

Post by **Holbytla** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:51 pm

ITunes is what it is and certainly it is based on your available song choices.
And of course random, or shuffle is a relative term in this context.
Yet I have to chuckle when the consecutive list includes a Beatle's song, a McCartney song, a Lennon song and a Ringo song. Poor George had to wait a few tracks to get in his two cents.

Odder yet is that there were 2 Louis Prima songs in the mix and a Van Halen ditty.

Post by **Alatar** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 5:33 pm

Van Halen do ditties?

Post by **axordil** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 6:10 pm

They did a cover of California Girls...I think that's pretty dittyish. Dittish? Dittioid?

Post by **vison** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 6:52 pm

axordil wrote:They did a cover of California Girls...I think that's pretty dittyish. Dittish? Dittioid?

It is unspeakably horrid.

Write your own silly pop songs, guys. Leave the old guys alone.

And don't get me started on Aerosmith's covers of the Beatles.

Ugh.

Post by **Alatar** » Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:59 am

Although I think Michael Jackson did a very creditable version of "Come Together"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_Z8k5ChsX8

Might be interesting to look at some of the best Beatles covers actually! Its not like the Fab Four had any issues with playing Chuck Berry.

Post by **vison** » Mon Sep 12, 2011 3:27 pm

A valid point.

But I still hate Aerosmith's covers of Beatles songs. If they're going to do it, they should at least do their own arrangements instead of note by note imitation.

Post by **axordil** » Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:21 pm

Best Beatles Covers I've heard, as they occur to me:

Joe Cocker, With a Little Help from My Friends
Johnny Cash, In My Life
Tina Turner, She Came in Through the Bathroom Window
U2, Helter Skelter
Alison Krauss, I Will

Ones that are memorable for other reasons:
Steve Martin, Maxwell's Silver Hammer

Post by **vison** » Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:06 pm

Poor old Joe.

Yeah, those are great. And what's better is, they're not Aerosmith.

Post by **Alatar** » Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:27 pm

I must check out Johnny Cash's version of "In My Life". I quite like this version by Bette Midler, but mostly for the Ukulele accompanist (who I suspect is Jake Simbakora)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siAVlUxpJXQ

Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:47 pm

Neat! The Ukelele is definitely the highlight, but Bette's vocal stylings are excellent!

Post by **Holbytla** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 2:45 am

vison wrote:A valid point.

But I still hate Aerosmith's covers of Beatles songs. If they're going to do it, they should at least do their own arrangements instead of note by note imitation.

As Whistler was fond of saying, "There is no accounting for taste".
You like what you like and you don't like what you don't like.

There was a half assed movie made in 1978 called "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band".

The movie was bad at best, and the soundtrack featured a motley crew of people and bands that were popular in the late 70's.

Those people and bands included the Bee Gees, Peter Frampton, Earth Wind and Fire, Steve Martin, George Burns

and a few et als.

Honestly, there is realistically one version of a Beatle's song that survived that monstrosity, and it was Aerosmith's Come Together.

And to be really honest, it is probably the most popular Beatle's cover there is and for good reason.

Now if you don't like Steven Tyler or Aerosmith I may as well talk to the wall.
To me, barring maybe (maybe!!) Led Zeppelin, Queen and Elton John, Aerosmith was The band of the 70's and their version of Come Together was full of their (Steven Tyler's) funky sound, soul and feeling. Tyler is without a doubt one of the best showmen of the 70's, and really the record sales, hype, popularity and sold out concerts speak far more decisively than I ever could.

I think Aerosmith did one other Beatle's cover, and it was a live version. So I don't have any idea about the plurality of your complaint.

As I said, you like what you like, and don't like what you don't like, but you are wetter than the Canadian side of Niagara when it comes to Aerosmith and Beatle's covers.

Post by **Holbytla** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 2:56 am

And because I am a huge dope and distracted by the Patriots game, I missed my main point.

I think it is important for a band covering a song, especially a Beatle's song, to pay homage and make sure the song is still recognizable and true to original meaning and content, while adding their own flavor and style.

I don't know how Aerosmith could have achieved that more succinctly than they did, while at the same time blowing away anyone else that had anything to do with that awful movie.

You can hate them all you want, but that is the best single from that awful soundtrack and it is by far the best "popular" Beatle's cover that there is.

Post by **vison** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 3:27 am

Well, I was already old in teh 70s, so I get a pass, Aerosmith-wise.

I never saw that monstrous movie. Thank god.

I like the Beatles, but I am not one who thinks they are the greatest band that ever was. I guess that would have to be Led Zeppelin, a band I didn't even listen to when they were first "out" and have only learned to like in the last couple of years, thanks to my grandson. Or, maybe the Beatles. Both good.

I don't know about the rest of my generation, but it seems that I don't remember music being of such great importance when I was a kid. Teens didn't rule the world then, and sure as hell not in my parents' house.

I like music but I am a reader, and once I get my nose into a book I'm deaf. I listen when I'm driving, but half the time it's The Carter Family or Osamu Kitajima or Loreena McKennit, not Rock and Roll.