:: Elm blows dust off her doorway to this board, looks around ::
Hello folks:)
Since Doctor Who is my new obsession, I can't not post on this thread. I used to watch the Tom Baker Doctor Who eps when they aired on PBS in the States. My kids found the "new Who" on BBCA where it aired after Primeval (which we all enjoy... doesn't require much thought but dinosaurs eating folks in shopping malls? Always good entertainment).
I didn't really watch... glanced in at a few episodes... thought it was nice Doctor Who was back... didn't want to get sucked into another show (I don't have time to watch much TV). Then one day my kids insisted I sit down and watch the one ep that had my 11 year old son terrified... "Midnight". I was glued to the TV. I never thought anyone would top Tom Baker for the doctor... but Tennant at least equals him. IA with Prim a few pages back: "And they've recaptured, for me, the old show's mix of whimsy and horror, if I could describe it that way; and the Doctor's light-hearted manner masking the fact that he is both wise and dangerous."
We have Netflix, and I ended up watching series 1 thru 3 online via Netflix. Took me about three weeks to watch all the shows available online, and recentlly I've caught on on series four via DVD. I have to say Russell Davies is an inconsistant writer... sometimes absolutely fantastic and sometimes... not. But with the exception of two episodes (the Titanic one and Love and Monsters) all his episodes keep me glued to the TV, even if there are parts I don't like.
I used Magic to watch the two specials that have only aired in the UK so far :: cough :: . But as of last week I'm completely caught up, even though I only started watching this past fall.
Re: 10.5 ... or the 'mortal' doctor. While on one hand it seemed like a sloppy/easy way to wrap up the Rose/Ten story, the idea itself of these twin (or triplet?) doctors fascinates me. I keep feeling the writers MUST go somewhere with this. I'm leading right now towards a necessary re-merging of all the parts. Initially I figured 10.5 was more like a twin or clone with downloaded memories, but that's kinda boring. Lots more potential if he's an actual sort of 'half regeneration' or part of a botched regeneration... truly the doctor (as is whatever bit is suppressed in Donna's mind right now). So part of me (no spoilers, just my spec) thinks that all this will be addressed again before Tennant exits.
I'm looking forward to Matt Smith. Yeah, he's young, and I feared the BBC decided to cash in on Twilight when I saw the promo pic... but when I saw MS's interview there was something about him. I think he'll work out well and I'm a big fan of Moffat's stories, so with him as showrunner I'm happy. Change to the docs sure messes up Moffat's "Library" episodes, though.
I had a big problem when we moved from Tom Baker to Peter Davison, because Davison was TOO YOUNG. I got over it. So Smith's age does not bother me as long as the stories are well written.
Doctor Who
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Voronwë the Faithful
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Elm! 
Midnight is an awesome episode. REALLY scary.
Lesley Sharp is just fantastic (she's a very good actress).
I also love Blink, from season three. Also scawy!
I'm so-so about Matt Smith's casting.
I felt it was high time they cast a black Doctor. I wanted THIS guy:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7739408.stm
But alas, it was not to be.
Al! Genesis of the Daleks!
So cool. 
However dodgy the BBC SFX were back in the 1970s -- and boy were they dodgy -- the storytelling elements of Who have always been excellent. 
Oh, and the best companion of all time is Sarah Jane Smith. No contest.
P.S. The Irish didn't get Doctor Who back in the day?
Another example of English imperialism.
Midnight is an awesome episode. REALLY scary.
Lesley Sharp is just fantastic (she's a very good actress).I also love Blink, from season three. Also scawy!
I'm so-so about Matt Smith's casting.
I felt it was high time they cast a black Doctor. I wanted THIS guy:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7739408.stm
But alas, it was not to be.
Al! Genesis of the Daleks!
So cool. However dodgy the BBC SFX were back in the 1970s -- and boy were they dodgy
-- the storytelling elements of Who have always been excellent. Oh, and the best companion of all time is Sarah Jane Smith. No contest.
P.S. The Irish didn't get Doctor Who back in the day?
Another example of English imperialism.
Last edited by Pearly Di on Tue Apr 21, 2009 4:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Frodo undertook his quest out of love - to save the world he knew from disaster at his own expense, if he could ... "
Letter no. 246, The Collected Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien
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Letter no. 246, The Collected Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien
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Primula Baggins
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Thanks for that post, Elmtree, and I agree that it's great to see you here!
The return of Doctor Who in fine form is one of those things I never, never expected to see—when I heard they were reviving it, I was afraid they'd "update" it in ways that made it not Doctor Who at all, or else turn it into a real kiddie show. So, having been proved spectacularly wrong, I'm prepared to trust their choice of the next doctor.
The return of Doctor Who in fine form is one of those things I never, never expected to see—when I heard they were reviving it, I was afraid they'd "update" it in ways that made it not Doctor Who at all, or else turn it into a real kiddie show. So, having been proved spectacularly wrong, I'm prepared to trust their choice of the next doctor.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
When my kids said they were watching the new Doctor Who, one reason I did not watch with them (other than looking in here and there) was I expected a 'modern update' that would make it silly. Not silly in the way it's supposed to be at times, but just not 'who'. The first one I remember looking in on was the one that introduced Martha... and I saw what looked like people in Rhino suits... which cheered me up a bit. I mean... that's so Who.
But it wasn't until series four was almost over that I began watching in earnest. Just love it.
I've also gone back via Netflix (I think that's only available in the US... it's a video rental company that sends you videos in the mail and you return them by mail, but it also has a pretty extensive 'watch instantly online' library) and watched some of the past Doctor whos. I really liked "The Aztecs" with doctor 1. It's amazing how much of the original doctor is preserved in all his other incarnations (though there certainly are changes). I watched a few Pertwee eps, too. I have Genesis of the Daleks on order from netflix (have to get that in the mail... it's not available online).
I think the new show has done a great job preserving the character of the doctor as the doctor.
Blink is my kids' favorite episode. I think it's the best episode though not my favorite episode. It's just so well written, directed, and cast.
My favorite episode varies, but Human Nature/Family of Blood is up there, as is New Earth, The Empty Child, and Christmas Invasion.
But it wasn't until series four was almost over that I began watching in earnest. Just love it.
I've also gone back via Netflix (I think that's only available in the US... it's a video rental company that sends you videos in the mail and you return them by mail, but it also has a pretty extensive 'watch instantly online' library) and watched some of the past Doctor whos. I really liked "The Aztecs" with doctor 1. It's amazing how much of the original doctor is preserved in all his other incarnations (though there certainly are changes). I watched a few Pertwee eps, too. I have Genesis of the Daleks on order from netflix (have to get that in the mail... it's not available online).
I think the new show has done a great job preserving the character of the doctor as the doctor.
Blink is my kids' favorite episode. I think it's the best episode though not my favorite episode. It's just so well written, directed, and cast.
My favorite episode varies, but Human Nature/Family of Blood is up there, as is New Earth, The Empty Child, and Christmas Invasion.
-Elm
"Don't blink. Blink and you're dead. Don't turn your back! Don't look away! And don't blink!"
And gorgeous Ten isn't even in it much! Although when he turns up, he's full of the usual gems. "I'm rubbish at weddings, especially my own."
I'd like to have seen more of Sally Sparrow.
The Doctor in love! 
From the first season, my favourite episode is Dalek. That was FANTASTIC. That episode was seminal viewing for people of my generation, who grew up with Who and the Daleks being 100% evil ... it totally re-invented the Daleks without losing their status as the number one villain in Whoverse.
I loved the finales to seasons one and two as well ... and the finale to season three ain't half bad. The Master calling himself Harold Saxon ... LOL.
I think it may be just about my favourite Who ep of all time.Elmtree wrote:Blink is my kids' favorite episode. I think it's the best episode though not my favorite episode. It's just so well written, directed, and cast.
And gorgeous Ten isn't even in it much! Although when he turns up, he's full of the usual gems. "I'm rubbish at weddings, especially my own." I'd like to have seen more of Sally Sparrow.
Oh, I love Human Nature/Family of Blood.My favorite episode varies, but Human Nature/Family of Blood is up there, as is New Earth, The Empty Child, and Christmas Invasion.
The Doctor in love! From the first season, my favourite episode is Dalek. That was FANTASTIC. That episode was seminal viewing for people of my generation, who grew up with Who and the Daleks being 100% evil ... it totally re-invented the Daleks without losing their status as the number one villain in Whoverse.
I loved the finales to seasons one and two as well ... and the finale to season three ain't half bad.
The Master calling himself Harold Saxon ... LOL."Frodo undertook his quest out of love - to save the world he knew from disaster at his own expense, if he could ... "
Letter no. 246, The Collected Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien
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Letter no. 246, The Collected Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien
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I love explorations of the character of the doctor... it's one reason I liked the Satan Pit (which could have been pretty cheesy but wasn't).
What got me with HumanNature/FoB was that this character, this John Smith, really was so the Doctor. He put on a 'costume' of John Smith but underneath it was still him... and it makes you wonder exactly what the TimeLord part is, since he can be still so himself as a human (though Martha was right... he was 'rubbish as a human' ). And I loved that when faced with going back to being a time lord... he wanted none of it. Fascinating. But he's always 'run' - and I guess wanting to reject the time lord part and all that entails is the ultimate in running. And freaky scarecrows are always good. It's another ep that was cast very well, too.
I also thought Dalek was incredible. Again... we got a good dose of the doctor's post war character... and it was a big turning point for him. It's amazing how this show can be so 'light' and fun, and yet have so much more in it at the same time.
As far as the finales... I liked the season 1 and 2 finales. I HATED season 3's finale, except for John Simm as the Master. He saved what was possibly the cheesiest show we'd had yet. I was cringing when we got the 'really bad holy card' version of the doc descending after everyone in the world cried out together "I do believe in faries! I do! I do!" Aw, c'mon. It's not even good Who cheesiness. It's just cheesy. But John Simm saved it... I was cringing at the holy card scene, and then crying at the master death scene a minute later... not that I think he's gone. I actually think he set the doctor up there.. expecting (and wanting) a 'defeat' -- and planning whatever the heck he was planning that involved that ring at the end. I guess we'll find out.
Series four finale... mixed bag... very RTD in that when it hits it really hits..and when it misses it really misses. Overall I liked it.. hated the Rose/Ten/Xerox end there... though as I said earlier the idea of the other doctor opens up many possibilities. I loved the end to Donna's story (though I don't think for a minute that's the end)... another one that made me cry. The Rose/10.5 bit just left me going "huh?" and feeling like I'd read a fanfic... but the Donna/Ten end was incredibly moving.
What got me with HumanNature/FoB was that this character, this John Smith, really was so the Doctor. He put on a 'costume' of John Smith but underneath it was still him... and it makes you wonder exactly what the TimeLord part is, since he can be still so himself as a human (though Martha was right... he was 'rubbish as a human' ). And I loved that when faced with going back to being a time lord... he wanted none of it. Fascinating. But he's always 'run' - and I guess wanting to reject the time lord part and all that entails is the ultimate in running. And freaky scarecrows are always good. It's another ep that was cast very well, too.
I also thought Dalek was incredible. Again... we got a good dose of the doctor's post war character... and it was a big turning point for him. It's amazing how this show can be so 'light' and fun, and yet have so much more in it at the same time.
As far as the finales... I liked the season 1 and 2 finales. I HATED season 3's finale, except for John Simm as the Master. He saved what was possibly the cheesiest show we'd had yet. I was cringing when we got the 'really bad holy card' version of the doc descending after everyone in the world cried out together "I do believe in faries! I do! I do!" Aw, c'mon. It's not even good Who cheesiness. It's just cheesy. But John Simm saved it... I was cringing at the holy card scene, and then crying at the master death scene a minute later... not that I think he's gone. I actually think he set the doctor up there.. expecting (and wanting) a 'defeat' -- and planning whatever the heck he was planning that involved that ring at the end. I guess we'll find out.
Series four finale... mixed bag... very RTD in that when it hits it really hits..and when it misses it really misses. Overall I liked it.. hated the Rose/Ten/Xerox end there... though as I said earlier the idea of the other doctor opens up many possibilities. I loved the end to Donna's story (though I don't think for a minute that's the end)... another one that made me cry. The Rose/10.5 bit just left me going "huh?" and feeling like I'd read a fanfic... but the Donna/Ten end was incredibly moving.
-Elm
Oh, the Rose/Parallel Ten thing was pure fanfic. 
Not even good fanfic.
I got very fed up with the Rose Was The Best Companion Evah ZOMG thing.
(Er, no, she isn't. )
The Donna/Ten ending was wrenching.
Freaky scarecrows are always good.
I well remember how freaked I was by the 'undead' mummies in The Pyramids of Mars (1975) ... one of the greatest Who storylines ever, that! At the height of the Baker/Sladen golden era.
Not even good fanfic. I got very fed up with the Rose Was The Best Companion Evah ZOMG thing.
(Er, no, she isn't.
)The Donna/Ten ending was wrenching.
Freaky scarecrows are always good.
I well remember how freaked I was by the 'undead' mummies in The Pyramids of Mars (1975) ... one of the greatest Who storylines ever, that! At the height of the Baker/Sladen golden era.
"Frodo undertook his quest out of love - to save the world he knew from disaster at his own expense, if he could ... "
Letter no. 246, The Collected Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien
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Letter no. 246, The Collected Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien
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Primula Baggins
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Oh, my, yes. What a powerful storyline that was—and I remember thinking when it started that Farscape was just indulging in a cheap SF trope by duplicating a character. But then they turned around and used it to, as you say, devastating effect, with reverberations that lasted to the end of the show.
Doctor Who has good writers, too. We'll see!
What a powerful storyline that was—and I remember thinking when it started that Farscape was just indulging in a cheap SF trope by duplicating a character. But then they turned around and used it to, as you say, devastating effect, with reverberations that lasted to the end of the show.Doctor Who has good writers, too. We'll see!
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
I find the idea of 10.5 fascinating... there are so many ways they could go with that (if they could get Tennant) but I more than half expect that character to gone by the Christmas special this year.
Don't know Farscape... but like many Who fans I thought of the Valeyard when 10.5 showed up. Unable to regenerate... darker version of the doctor... but given the events of the time war it seems the story with the Valeyard cannot have happened now ( a classic who story if anyone only familiar with the newWho is wondering what I'm going on about).
10.5/Rose as bad fanfic... if that's all they did it for, yeah. But what IS he? Did the doctor actually split into three? Is he 'partial' right now... in all those forms? do they have to merge before he can regenerate? It could reasonably go that way. Ten sure is different since the split (though I attribute that more to Davros' words than the split).
OR is 10.5 a 'twin' with sort of downloaded memories? IS he the doctor, or is he 'just' a duplicate? You can go in some interesting directions with this one, too (and not just the evil twin direction).
I thought Ten was fairly silly with the great upsetness about the "genocide" since he was prepared to do the same in Genesis of the Daleks (yes, he struggled with it and questioned himself, but he was prepared to follow through). Through the series he's been fairly dual about this sort of thing... rejecting violence, but also resorting to it. He can be very harsh at times. So... did he split into two sides... two sides that used to battle within him?
SO much story potential in this split... it's fascinating to me. But... I rather suspect we won't get that much follow through (if any) here. I do expect follow through with Donna... not as sure with 10.5/Rose. There ought to be... how can someone leave THAT hanging? But I am not sure there will be, unless they go the 'merge' route.
My favorite companion in the newWho is Donna... loved her. But I did end up 'buying' the Ten/rose stuff... though it never went too far (thank goodness).
Don't know Farscape... but like many Who fans I thought of the Valeyard when 10.5 showed up. Unable to regenerate... darker version of the doctor... but given the events of the time war it seems the story with the Valeyard cannot have happened now ( a classic who story if anyone only familiar with the newWho is wondering what I'm going on about).
10.5/Rose as bad fanfic... if that's all they did it for, yeah. But what IS he? Did the doctor actually split into three? Is he 'partial' right now... in all those forms? do they have to merge before he can regenerate? It could reasonably go that way. Ten sure is different since the split (though I attribute that more to Davros' words than the split).
OR is 10.5 a 'twin' with sort of downloaded memories? IS he the doctor, or is he 'just' a duplicate? You can go in some interesting directions with this one, too (and not just the evil twin direction).
I thought Ten was fairly silly with the great upsetness about the "genocide" since he was prepared to do the same in Genesis of the Daleks (yes, he struggled with it and questioned himself, but he was prepared to follow through). Through the series he's been fairly dual about this sort of thing... rejecting violence, but also resorting to it. He can be very harsh at times. So... did he split into two sides... two sides that used to battle within him?
SO much story potential in this split... it's fascinating to me. But... I rather suspect we won't get that much follow through (if any) here. I do expect follow through with Donna... not as sure with 10.5/Rose. There ought to be... how can someone leave THAT hanging? But I am not sure there will be, unless they go the 'merge' route.
I confess, I ended up quite taken with them. :: hangs head in shame :: I never would have believed I'd go for this sort of thing, but I did. NOT the 10.5/rose stuff, but just that there was more there than with other companions.I got very fed up with the Rose Was The Best Companion Evah ZOMG thing.
My favorite companion in the newWho is Donna... loved her. But I did end up 'buying' the Ten/rose stuff... though it never went too far (thank goodness).
-Elm
Love Sarah Jane.
I didn't see Rose rise above the rest as a companion in particular (though the fact she absorbed the heart of the tardis at one point does make her different), but I did enjoy watching the doctor become more attached to her. I liked Martha in series four, because she was no longer the clingy obsessed school girl... in series three she was pathetically obsessed with the doctor like a child with a crush and that diminished what otherwise would have been a good character. It's like that's ALL that she was... a lady with a crush. But by series four she was 'over' him in that way, and she was a much better character. I like the actress.
I didn't see Rose rise above the rest as a companion in particular (though the fact she absorbed the heart of the tardis at one point does make her different), but I did enjoy watching the doctor become more attached to her. I liked Martha in series four, because she was no longer the clingy obsessed school girl... in series three she was pathetically obsessed with the doctor like a child with a crush and that diminished what otherwise would have been a good character. It's like that's ALL that she was... a lady with a crush. But by series four she was 'over' him in that way, and she was a much better character. I like the actress.
-Elm
Oh, I wouldn't want anyone to think that I disliked the Ten/Rose pairing. They're always repeating Who eps on BBC3 and I was watching a Ten/Rose ep last night (Satan's Pit, that was a darned good story!) I really liked the chemistry between David and Billie ... I just don't understand why people think Rose was the best companion ever. 
My favourite Rose moment is at the end of season one, when the Doctor was still Nine, when she absorbed all the energy from the Tardis and transformed briefly into this Galadriel-type being who could see all of time (like the Doc himself). I just loved that.
I liked Martha, a lot. I certainly didn't find her inferior to Rose.
And I also liked Donna (mostly).
But the best was still Sarah Jane.
They're always repeating Who eps on BBC3 and I was watching a Ten/Rose ep last night (Satan's Pit, that was a darned good story!) I really liked the chemistry between David and Billie ... I just don't understand why people think Rose was the best companion ever. My favourite Rose moment is at the end of season one, when the Doctor was still Nine, when she absorbed all the energy from the Tardis and transformed briefly into this Galadriel-type being who could see all of time (like the Doc himself). I just loved that.
I liked Martha, a lot. I certainly didn't find her inferior to Rose.
And I also liked Donna (mostly).
But the best was still Sarah Jane.
"Frodo undertook his quest out of love - to save the world he knew from disaster at his own expense, if he could ... "
Letter no. 246, The Collected Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien
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Letter no. 246, The Collected Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien
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Because she looked into the Tardis and became like a god for a short while? That's when he really fell for her. And I suspect she arranged all the events up and down the timeline so she'd end up with a version of the doctor she could live happily ever after with.WampusCat wrote:Although I enjoyed seeing the Doctor become increasingly attached to Rose, I didn't see what made her rise above the rest.
