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 Post subject: Re: What's in a name?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 4:25 am 
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Voronwë the Faithful wrote:
I disagree with that. I don’t think there are any guitarist that can play like Brian May, and I know that there are none that can play like David Gilmour .


I mean, nobody can write guitar music like they could, sure, but I'm sure tons of talented guitarists could play any of their famous songs perfectly without anyone being able to tell the difference.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 4:44 am 
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yovargas wrote:
elengil wrote:
yovargas wrote:
I honestly find it, I don't know, tacky or disrespectful or something, for a band to keep using the same name once you've lost the singer on all your most famous songs. It feels cheap or dishonest or something. I dunno, but I don't like it.


Why the singer? Why is that the definition of a group? Why if the singer is gone do the remaining band members - the majority - lose the (even perceived) right to be that group?

Because, like it or not, the singer is the voice and face of almost all bands. And also, it is much easier to find someone who can convincingly play guitar like Brian May than someone who can sing like Freddy Mercury. Singers, especially rock singers, are far more unique and distinct than instruments. I bet there are thousands and thousands of talented musicians who could perfectly play the instrumental portions of any Queen or Pynk Floyd song but almost no one can sing like their singers did.


But what about the actual creative force behind the music? There are some artists who are little more than the singer and whatever musicians happen to play the accompanying music. But there are some groups that are groups, who may feel the loss of a drummer or guitarists as keenly as the loss of a vocal, because it is about what makes the group "the group" inside, not necessarily the perception outside. Yes, that will always play a role in how the public sees/accepts a group, but if the creative force behind a group - a lead song writer, or someone who is able to coral the members in a way that another can't, that is not something that can simply be replaced because they are not a lead vocal.

While I can appreciate that Voronwë is attached to a specific member of Pink Floyd as certainly encompassing it for him, that isn't the only measure of a group. But then what of the albums and music made after that member left? It's not just a philosophy exercise to ask who the heck is making this music if not the band name printed on the album! It may be different, but a lot of bands evolve over time even when all members remain, their music may be vastly different at different points. So with the change of any member, a change in the style or direction may come, but that does not remove any ability for them to still be the band they were, even if in a different form.

I mean, Genesis was still Genesis after Peter Gabriel moved on. (Gasp, something I know!) As has been pointed out, they may have not been the same Genesis, but they were still Genesis - because Genesis was more than Peter Gabriel and some musicians. (that would be, of course, that Peter Gabriel is simply Peter Gabriel and 'some musicians' who may change or not without the general audience ever even noticing.) They were a group, no one individual necessarily was the group, they were together the group. And like the fabled re-built ship, one part replaced eventually simply becomes a part of what is already there and it continues on.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 2:29 pm 
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Voronwë the Faithful wrote:
Al is correct that Queen was a hugely collaborative group, but Freddie was always the main attractive. That’s why they don’t tour now as just “Queen” they have to tour as “Queen and Adam Lambert”.


I think you're missing the point there. Brian and Roger are Queen. Adam Lambert is not. That's why it's billed as "Queen with Paul Rogers" and "Queen with Adam Lambert".

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 Post subject: Re: What's in a name?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 3:08 pm 
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yovargas wrote:
Voronwë the Faithful wrote:
I disagree with that. I don’t think there are any guitarist that can play like Brian May, and I know that there are none that can play like David Gilmour .


I mean, nobody can write guitar music like they could, sure, but I'm sure tons of talented guitarists could play any of their famous songs perfectly without anyone being able to tell the difference.


I've heard lots of people try to play Pink Floyd music like David Gilmour, and none do. (I've heard even more people try to play like Jerry Garcia, and none come close. The ones that do best don't try to sound like him but rather play the music their own way.)

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 Post subject: Re: What's in a name?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 4:23 pm 
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I just searched "pink floyd cover band" in youtube and this was the top result. Fast forward to about the 6 minute mark to see some young dude doing basically a perfect rendition of Shine on you Crazy Diamond (one of my PF favs). You would absolutely think this was the real Floyd right until the singer comes in at the 13 minute mark - only then can you tell you're not listening to the real Pink Floyd:


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 Post subject: Re: What's in a name?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 4:34 pm 
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It's very good, but it still is not David Gilmour. Though I agree that is about as close as it gets.

ETA: Also one of my PF favorites, btw. Actually take out the "PF". One of my favorite songs, period.

Edited also to add: I was interested to find that that guitarist, Bobby Harrison, also participated in a London show called "We Will Rock You" doing Queen songs, as well as a show called The Classic Rock Show. He apparently specializes in mimicking the style of classic rock guitarists.

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 Post subject: Re: What's in a name?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 5:04 pm 
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Sorry, V-man, but if I started playing that for you and told you it was the real band without looking, I'm pretty darn sure you would believe me. :)

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 Post subject: Re: What's in a name?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 5:13 pm 
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And I'm pretty sure I wouldn't. But we likely will never prove it one way or the other. :D

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 Post subject: Re: What's in a name?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 5:20 pm 
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Well, if you really could tell the difference, I'd wager 99% of people couldn't!

Speaking of impressive mimicry (sort of), have y'all seen Jimmy Fallon's amazing impressions of classic rock singers? They're so good! Jim Morrison, Bob Dylan, Bruce Springsteen, Neil Young, all of them good enough that played in the background they could probably fool a casual fan, and maybe even a few serious fans!








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 Post subject: Re: What's in a name?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 5:31 pm 
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Yeah, Fallon's great.

Here is his updated The Times They Are a-Changing for the Trump era:


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 Post subject: Re: What's in a name?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 5:36 pm 
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Holy cow, somehow I had never seen that The Times They Are a-Changing, that's so crazy good!

"Come athletes with platforms throughout the land
Who by taking a knee are taking a stand
And before you shout out that they should be banned
Listen to what they are saying
Perhaps they'd stand up if you reached out your hand
Well the times they are a-changing"


Daaaayuuuum, Jimmy!

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 Post subject: Re: What's in a name?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 5:44 pm 
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:)

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 Post subject: Re: What's in a name?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:24 am 
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Well, that sent me down the nostalgia rabbit hole.

Sent from a tiny phone keyboard via Tapatalk - typos inevitable.

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 Post subject: Re: What's in a name?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:03 am 
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<ducks in>

I am not a fan of Pink Floyd at all. I mean, I don't hate them, but I don't really know any of their songs whatsoever.

<ducks out>

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 Post subject: Re: What's in a name?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:31 am 
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See, a vocal can be mimicked, same as a guitarist, and succesfully enough that only a die hard fan would know the difference. Marc Martel is the voice of Freddie and came to fame as the voice of the official Queen tribute band, "The Queen Extravaganza". He could have toured with Queen just as easily, but they didn't want a clone.



That's why they first went with Paul Rodgers, who's about as different from Freddie as you can get.



But while he was great, and I loved that tour, Adam Lambert embodies the spirit of Freddie without being a soundalike

https://youtu.be/wdEe68SR-uY?t=187

But I guess the proof is in the pudding. I defy anyone to see Queen and Adam Lambert live and not feel they had just seen Queen.

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 Post subject: Re: What's in a name?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:38 pm 
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Alatar wrote:
But while he was great, and I loved that tour, Adam Lambert embodies the spirit of Freddie without being a soundalike

https://youtu.be/wdEe68SR-uY?t=187

But I guess the proof is in the pudding. I defy anyone to see Queen and Adam Lambert live and not feel they had just seen Queen.


Eeek. Not to take away anything from his talent but I have a strong visceral "this is wrong!" reaction the moment the vocals start. That's not my Queen!

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 Post subject: Re: What's in a name?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:29 pm 
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Nor mine.

Sent from my LG G6 using Tapatalk

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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 12:55 pm 
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Alatar wrote:
Queen play with Adam Lambert but they are still Queen.



Adam Lambert wrote:
People always ask if we want to record together and I’m not sure it makes total sense because it wouldn’t really be Queen because to me Queen is Freddie.

https://www.hungertv.com/editorial/adam ... um-velvet/

That settles that, right? :)

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 Post subject: Re: What's in a name?
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 1:08 pm 
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There you go. :)

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 Post subject: Re: What's in a name?
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 1:24 pm 
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I’m of the opinion that I’ll buy any new music that Brian and Roger put out under the name Queen, whether it’s Paul Rogers, Adam Lambert or some new singer in the future. Queen were so much more than just Freddie.

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