What's in a name?

[kzer_za]

Brian and Roger's recent "Queen+" collaborations don't have John Deacon either, who wrote three of their biggest hits and whose bass is a subtle but important part of their classic sound. So it's only half the original band. I would prefer them not to use the Queen name.

On the other hand, is Pink Floyd without Wright still Floyd? If not, does that put The Wall into borderline status, where he was fired and made limited session contributions? (I admit I'm not really a big fan of The Wall as an album, though of course the best tracks are great)

[Alatar]

You might prefer them not to, but John is perfectly happy for them to. Why should they drop the brand they worked for decades to create? They're not dead.

[elengil]

We get very emotionally attached to things like bands, and so have very strong opinions about whether a band is still that band when whoever we think is inseparable from said band is no longer there.

But that's all on us. That's our opinion.

We don't ask why Apple hasn't dissolved, or why Ford is still called Ford. A music group is a business. Entertainment business, yes, but a business nonetheless.

[Alatar]

Since this has become the de facto Queen thread, I'll just put these here







Dude is a forklift driver from Jakarta. 'Scuse me while I go burn my guitars.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

That's funny, because I was just coming here to post this. I've never heard anyone sound nearly this close to Freddie.

[Frelga]

Since Good Omens came out, I've been listening to more Queen than at any time since 1980s.

[Alatar]

That's funny, because I was just coming here to post this. I've never heard anyone sound nearly this close to Freddie.

I posted a clip of Marc Martel upthread a bit (in fact I think its that clip). He won the competition for a Freddie soundalike and was the lead singer of the Queen Extravaganza, a live official tribute show. But thats the thing, he's just a Freddie clone, whereas Paul Rogers and Adam Lambert were artists in their own right.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

So I see. Back in January. I missed that, or more likely, just forgot.

I can't say that I have heard Paul Rogers with Queen, but I was extremely unimpressed by Adam Lambert.

[yovargas]

I don't recall seeing that before either. Very impressive! Something about him even kinda looks like Freddie, somehow. Still couldn't hit that one ultra-super-high note though, poor guy.

[Jude]

I inherited albums Queen I to Day at the Races from my dad. He listened to all sorts, from ancient music all the way to The Who. Of all of us three siblings, I think I'm the only one that has a functioning record player (I told you I was a square! ) so most of the vinyl went to me.

That Marc Martel has a good voice - does he have any original stuff worth listening to?

[RoseMorninStar]

Love Queen.. and Brian May but there will never be another Freddie. I closed my eyes as I listened to this and at times I thought he did quite well but other moments didn't quite pull it off for me. But, we have to work with what we've got and Freddie sets a pretty high bar.

[Alatar]

Let me try another tack here. How would this board feel if Christopher Tolkien had never published the Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, The History of Middle-earth, The Children of Húrin, Beren and Lúthien, The Fall of Gondolin etc? If Guy Gavriel Kay had not helped to write The Silmarillion perhaps it would never have been published. But that would imply that I'm equating Freddie to J.R.R. and the rest of Queen to C.R.R. while Freddie was only a quarter of Queen, and while he was the most prolific of the songwriters (and not by much) many of their most famous songs were written by the other members of the band. So lets imagine that J.R.R and C.R.R were co-writers of The Lord of the Rings. When J.R.R died are we saying its ok for C.R.R to edit and publish stuff they had almost finished together, but he's not allowed to write any more Middle-earth stories because his writing partner died? Even if he brings in a Guy Gavriel Kay or a Brandon Sanderson to help out?

To be clear, I'm not saying he uses J.R.R's name, but the property they built (hypothetically) together.

For a more direct comparison, The Expanse is written by James S. A. Corey, which is the joint pen name of authors Daniel Abraham and Ty Franck. If one dies, can the other no longer publish Novels as James. S. A. Corey

[Voronwë the Faithful]

To be clear, I don't have a problem with Brian May et al. using the name Queen. I just wasn't particularly impressed with what I heard of them with Adam Lambert. To me, that is not Queen.

The situation with Pink Floyd (which is what actually started this discussion) is a little different, because Roger Waters is not dead.

[Alatar]

To be clear, I don't have a problem with Brian May et al. using the name Queen. I just wasn't particularly impressed with what I heard of them with Adam Lambert. To me, that is not Queen.

No, its Queen with Adam Lambert.

And I'm perfectly ok with people not liking his voice. To me though, he feels like someone Freddie would have approved of.

[yovargas]

I mean, they're certainly allowed to call themselves whatever they like. But they can't force what people think of them and to many people, that ain't Queen.

People don't really care who wrote the songs, they care who brought them to life for them, and in this case, that person was Freddie.

[RoseMorninStar]

Brian May (and Roger Taylor) had a band before Mercury joined them called 'Smile'. The original lead vocal and bass guitar was Tim Staffel. When Staffel left 'Smile' to join the band 'Humpy Bong' (I'm not making this up!) Farrokh Bulsara 'Freddie' who had been friends with the band, and bassist John Deacon signed on. Freddie, to the hesitation of everyone else, wanted to call the band 'Queen' and he gave it not just his distinctive voice, but his distinctive vision, innovation. direction, and showmanship.

Vision and innovation is what is missing from your Tolkien analogy. Christopher & Guy may have helped finish all of those books for which we are grateful, but they did not have the initial vision and creativity to create the world that spawned the world of Middle Earth. I can copy a Picasso fairly faithfully, but a Picasso it does not make. Picasso is Picasso because he was an innovator with original vision. To be able to copy or build on something that one admires is amazing and wonderful, but it is not original vision, creativity, and innovation.

That said, I don't mind them calling themselves Queen, but it's not the same.

[Alatar]

I think that completely misses the point of Queen. Queen were alchemy that worked because of the interplay of their talents and the very strong driving force of all of the individual members (even John in his quiet way). There's a reason nobody listens to Freddie's solo albums, or Brian's for that matter, or Roger's. How many people do you know who own Mr. Bad Guy? Or Barcelona? I find it really disrespectful that so many people insist that Queen was Freddie. It just wasn't. And Freddie knew it. Brian May's guitar is as much of Queen's sound as Freddie's voice. And Brian May's guitar wouldn't have that incredible sustain without John Deacon's high gain pre-amp (nicknamed the "Deacy"). Every one of the band penned a number one hit. Brian and Roger both sang lead vocal on multiple songs. Many of their biggest hits were not written by Freddie. He was one of the driving forces behind the band for sure, and he was the showman that brought their live act into the stratosphere, but the multitracking on BoRhap? That was all Brian. More of Queen's sound is down to Brian than Freddie, but Brian doesn't have Freddie's voice. But Freddie without Brian was nothing too. Lets not forget that.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Freddie without Brian was nothing too. Lets not forget that.

I completely agree with that.

A similar discussion probably could be had about the Doors, except that Ray, Robbie and John didn't try to be the Doors after Jim passed over. But I certainly would argue that Jim without Ray was nothing just as much as Ray without Jim was nothing.

[RoseMorninStar]

I agree that Queen was the alchemy & interplay between all members, and it wouldn't be the same without any one of them, but Freddie is the one who died/ who is the missing part of the equation. Would Freddie have chosen to continue as Queen if Brian, John, or Roger had died? We can't know.

Jack White has said that when Meg chose to quit 'The White Stripes' the band would cease to exist because they WERE the sum of their parts and Meg/the philosophy of The White Stripes could not be replaced. They were White/Black/Red, with Meg on the Drums. Jack didn't stop being a musician, he moved on to other things.

I believe one of the reasons many people equate Queen with Freddie is pretty much the same reason the video posted above is a song from 45 years ago and not something recent from Queen. If Freddie were still alive I'm sure they'd still be singing Bohemian Rhapsody, but I would think they would also have continued to innovate and push the boundaries with new music. Or, if they could not, they would have disbanded and gone on to other projects. Imitation is not innovation. I'm not saying Queen was Freddie (only) but replacing him with a sound-alike vocalist isn't the same either.

*I own Barcelona.

edited to add:
John Bonham's death kinda put the nail in the coffin for Led Zeppelin, although I don't think anyone would claim any member of that band was without genuine talent.
AC/DC continued as an innovative hit-producing band without Bon Scott who was replaced with Brian Johnson.
The band Nirvana died with Kurt Cobain but none would dispute the talent of Dave Grohl who went on to form the Foo Fighters, etc...

There is no one 'right' way to continue after the loss of a band member. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Queen fits somewhere in-between, imho.

[Alatar]

Well Queen did release two albums with Paul Rogers. Neither were hits, but I own both of them and both have merit. Also, neither of the artists Queen have collaborated with since are soundalikes*. Paul Rogers couldn't be more different vocally, and while Adam Lambert has a similar type of voice to Freddie, he never imitates. In fact Freddie is very present in all the live concerts, in video and audio clips and in constant references by the band and Adam/Roger. They're not attempting to replace him, but to keep his legacy alive.

I don't mind admitting I cried through this entire number in the Q&PR Concert.



*Marc Martel does not sing with Queen.