For those of you who don't already know, I'm playing Tevye in Fiddler on the Roof in a couple of weeks time. As we start to tighten up dialogue scenes I'm realising that not having any Jewish frame of reference is starting to limit me a little. Now, granted, there's not likely to be a large contingent of Jews, let alone Orthodox Jews in the University of Limerick Concert Hall, but still I'd rather get things right than wrong. So here's a few bits and pieces I'd like clarified.
Sabbath. Before the number "Sabbath Prayer" we bring the family around the table and light candles. During the song however, what is the correct prayer stance, or attitude? Do we clasp hands or steeple them like Christians praying?Do the Children join in the prayer, or only the Parents/Adults?
Tevye also has a scene where he's trying to pray before the Sabbath meal and Golde keeps interrupting him. Should this be a sort of incoherent chanting? Or silent prayer? I know in the Movie he goes behind a curtain to pray, but this isn't possible in our set.
I'm under no illusion that this will be an accurate historical portrayal of Jews in Russia, but I'd prefer to avoid glaring inconsistency if I can.
Fiddler on the Roof - My Jewish Homework!
Fiddler on the Roof - My Jewish Homework!
The Vinyamars on Stage! This time at Bag End
More likely, there aren't that many people here who can answer you. Don't forget the time difference, too - you posted in the middle of the U.S. night and now it's work time.
As the resident token Jew here
I'll look into this when I'm home, if I get a chance.
ETA: Here's a page to get you started: http://www.jewfaq.org/prayer/shabbat.htm
As the resident token Jew here
I'll look into this when I'm home, if I get a chance.ETA: Here's a page to get you started: http://www.jewfaq.org/prayer/shabbat.htm
If there was anything that depressed him more than his own cynicism, it was that quite often it still wasn't as cynical as real life.
Terry Pratchett, Guards! Guards!
Terry Pratchett, Guards! Guards!
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Primula Baggins
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I'd love to see it too. But vison, if you get a chance to see any production, do. It's one of my favorite musicals, funny and moving and ultimately very powerful.
I emailed my son and said he should go see it. (He's at Limerick University this semester and loves musical theater.)
I emailed my son and said he should go see it. (He's at Limerick University this semester and loves musical theater.)
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
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MaidenOfTheShieldarm
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I'm not sure of the the other things, but steepling your hands is definitely not the right answer. You might be making a gesture that I'm not entirely sure how to describe. It's like waving the candlelight towards yourself. The staging here probably couldn't be completely accurate anyway because you're supposed to cover your eyes until the candles are blessed but you don't really want to spend the entire song standing there with your hands over your eyes.
When Tevye prays to himself, it's most likely very a sort of whisper or mumble with a sort of bob. It's not incoherent, but it probably isn't intelligible.
I hope that's helpful. It's been a long time since I properly celebrated Shabbat.
When Tevye prays to himself, it's most likely very a sort of whisper or mumble with a sort of bob. It's not incoherent, but it probably isn't intelligible.
I hope that's helpful. It's been a long time since I properly celebrated Shabbat.
And it is said by the Eldar that in the water there lives yet the echo of the Music of the Ainur more than in any substance else that is in this Earth; and many of the Children of Ilúvatar hearken still unsated to the voices of the sea, and yet know not what for what they listen.
What Mossy said. Don't steeple your hands, it's not a Jewish thing. Sure, children can join, no reason not to. We embrace when we recite blessings, but Tevye, who knows. 
Just standing there in a respectful attitude is probably close enough.
The second question is more complicated. Tevye is praying in his house right before the Shabbat blessing? I'd think he ought to be at the synagogue or getting ready for Shabbat, but I could be wrong. I don't remember the movie at all. Anyway, to actually answer your question, the prayers have a specific melody to the chant. Of course you aren't going to learn the Hebrew prayer, but if you are interested you could easily find the melody on YouTube. Or you could just sort of move your lips and sway a little.
The problem I have with Fiddler is that for many people it actually represents their idea of the Jewish life. Which is kind of like relying on The Mikado to represent Japanese culture but there you are.
Just standing there in a respectful attitude is probably close enough.The second question is more complicated. Tevye is praying in his house right before the Shabbat blessing? I'd think he ought to be at the synagogue or getting ready for Shabbat, but I could be wrong. I don't remember the movie at all. Anyway, to actually answer your question, the prayers have a specific melody to the chant. Of course you aren't going to learn the Hebrew prayer, but if you are interested you could easily find the melody on YouTube. Or you could just sort of move your lips and sway a little.
The problem I have with Fiddler is that for many people it actually represents their idea of the Jewish life. Which is kind of like relying on The Mikado to represent Japanese culture but there you are.
If there was anything that depressed him more than his own cynicism, it was that quite often it still wasn't as cynical as real life.
Terry Pratchett, Guards! Guards!
Terry Pratchett, Guards! Guards!
In the movie (haven't seen the live musical), Tevye runs into the house almost-but-not-quite late and while his wife chews him out he's praying.
There's a lot of the movie I don't remember very well, but the whole Shabbat bit sticks out in my mind because after Tevye and Golde have established their relationship, a song starts up and there's this beautiful sequence of the candles being passed around in various households.
There's a lot of the movie I don't remember very well, but the whole Shabbat bit sticks out in my mind because after Tevye and Golde have established their relationship, a song starts up and there's this beautiful sequence of the candles being passed around in various households.
When you can do nothing what can you do?
I had the pleasure of seeing Topol perform the role live just a few months ago. I can honestly say, what is far more important to the play is not the accuracy of the prayers, but the pure honesty of the song. I had the pleasure of singing the sabbath prayer song in my high school choir, and it is one of my favorites of all time.
Tevye is the role I would always wish I could play in a musical. I envy you, Alatar! Good luck!
Tevye is the role I would always wish I could play in a musical. I envy you, Alatar! Good luck!
For the TROUBLED may you find PEACE
For the DESPAIRING may you find HOPE
For the LONELY may you find LOVE
For the SKEPTICAL may you find FAITH
-Frances C. Arrillaga 1941-1995
For the DESPAIRING may you find HOPE
For the LONELY may you find LOVE
For the SKEPTICAL may you find FAITH
-Frances C. Arrillaga 1941-1995
Thanks everyone, I'm absorbing as much as I can at the moment. Simply reading up on the Pogroms and the Shtetls, the Pale of Settlement and the Revolution of 1905 have been hugely illuminating. Certainly, one can play the role without knowing these things, but I like to have every aid in understanding the character that I can. Not for the audiences benefit, but for my own.
Remember how Weta put the seal of the House of Eorl on the inside of Théoden's breastplate, so it would be the last thing seen by Bernard Hill when donning his armour? That's the sort of immersion that fascinates me.
(and now I'll promptly go and forget my lines while concentrating on Czar Alexander's May Laws!)
Remember how Weta put the seal of the House of Eorl on the inside of Théoden's breastplate, so it would be the last thing seen by Bernard Hill when donning his armour? That's the sort of immersion that fascinates me.
(and now I'll promptly go and forget my lines while concentrating on Czar Alexander's May Laws!)
The Vinyamars on Stage! This time at Bag End
Well, I got some very good news yesterday. I've been nominated for Best Actor for my role as Tevye. The AIMS awards are like the Oscars for Irish Musical Societies. The standard is very, very high, so a nomination like this is a huge deal for me. Essentially it means that I was selected as one of the three best acting performances in the country last year. Very chuffed.
The Vinyamars on Stage! This time at Bag End
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Primula Baggins
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Congratulations, Alatar! 
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
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Voronwë the Faithful
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Wow, Alatar! That's fantastic! I'm not surprised, but I'm very impressed; that's a big deal. Particularly so, because the impression that I had was that you felt that you needed to work extra hard to capture the nuances of this role (and it is juicy role!).
Well done! And good luck!
Well done! And good luck!
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
