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Discussion of performing arts, including theatre, film, television, and music.
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truehobbit
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Post by truehobbit »

Jude wrote: The music that introduces the aria is fabulous, and I love to hear the aria done in recital or concert. In the context, it always gives the producer a big challenge on what to have going on during the intro - often they resort to "stage business" :roll:

And pity the actor that plays Bassa Selim - not only does he have to stand through the two-minute intro, he also has to stand through the then-minute aria that follows!
Ah, I see what you mean!
Yes, you hit on something that's driving me crazy about modern producers!
The way I picture the ideal production of the scene is that people do just stand during the scene! There may be mimic and gestures, perhaps even a few movements, taking a step towards someone or back, to show reaction, but yes, mainly it's static. I don't have a problem with this. The action is in the music. People are supposed to listen!
But, of course, that's what producers are totally incapable of! We need ACTION! :roll:
You get that a lot these days. Sometimes there's even action on stage during the ouverture! Because you can't expect people to just sit and listen with nothing to look at for ten whole minutes, can you? :bang:
And, of course, all arias are buried in a bustle of activity, successfully preventing the audience from any close listening! :roll: :bang: *sigh*
And as if that wasn't bad enough, you often get action that's the complete opposite of the action or feeling described in the text of the scene! :bang: :bang: :bang:

[/rant]

(With respect to the Bassa standing around: people are supposed to focus on Constanze, and in an aria like that, you'd have your attention glued to her anyway! It should be easy for the actor of the Bassa to melt into the background, except for showing the occasional reaction to Constanze's words.)

As to the demands on the singer: I've never had the impression in listening to it on stage that it was too much on the singer's power, although they are two tough pieces. Mozart took care to adapt his writing to the skills of his singers, and the original singer was a famous virtuoso and therefore maybe better suited to the role than many others who are given the part. Still, isn't a more difficult part also more fun?
There is some dialogue in between the arias, too. (In full, I'd say it makes five minutes of speaking - in a live-recording I have it is cut to only a few lines between Constanze and the Bassa (unless the text was only cut after the recording).)
And of course there's a two minute intro to the next aria, to give the singer a breather! ;)
So, thanks for pointing this out: I think here we have another two reasons why the intro is essential: give the singer time to prepare and set the new tone! This is a big change in the mood from one piece of music to the next, it might have been odd to have the same person who just before lamented her misfortune in the softest, sweetest notes suddenly burst out into heroics - the intro prepares us for something big to come!
So, there are technical as well as dramatic reasons for having the intro! :D

I'll admit that it is unusual, however, to give two big arias in a row to a singer! Some jealousy from the other roles must have been programmed! But then, Mme Cavalieri was the Star! ;)
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Post by Jude »

On a similar theme, do you, or does anyone know his unfinished opera "Zaide"?

Like Die Entführung, it's based in a Middle-Eastern country and deals with some slaves trying to escape.

All that remains is sixteen numbers - none of the dialogue is extant, so whatever we know about the plot has been pieced together from the text in the music.

We know very little about it, except that in a letter, Mozart remarked "the public prefers happy endings'. This may hint that an unhappy ending was planned (if true, I think this would be the only one of his operas).
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Post by truehobbit »

Yep, I know it - I have a recording with a dialogue reconstructed from a similar play :) - oriental pieces whose moral point at the end was clemency of the ruler were very popular at the time! A subject which I'm sentimental enough to find very appealing! :)

And people who have seen "Amadeus" will know the aria "Ruhe sanft", from 'Zaide' - I must admit I don't remember where it was played in the movie, but it's on the soundtrack! :D

I wasn't aware of that quote, I guess I'll try to find it, interesting, Jude! :)


Because this is a tribute to Mozart and because it might make people curious who haven't listened to much of his music, I've been meaning to give a few sound samples here as Mozart's birthday approaches. I've uploaded the first to my esnips account, and mean to add a few more over the next couple of days.

(These clips are from commercial, but legally bought recordings. If there is a problem as to the legality of this, PM me, please! I must say I thought such a tiny clip serves more as free advertisement than anything else.)

http://esnips.com/web/truehobbit-Mozart

This is the prayer of the priests from The Magic Flute, "Oh Isis und Osiris".
It's the piece that I'm quoting in my avatar (not sure you can see that there are a few bars of music in the corner).
I was very much under the impression of LOTR when I was listening to The Magic Flute one day, and this piece, for me, had the same feeling to it that the idea of Frodo setting out on his task gave me.
On listening to it repeatedly, it occurred to me that even the text was somewhat appropriate:

Oh Isis und Osiris schenket
Der Weisheit Geist dem neuen Paar.
Die ihr der Wanderer Schritte lenket
Stärkt mit Geduld sie in Gefahr!

Laßt sie der Prüfung Früchte sehen!
Doch sollten sie zu Grabe gehen,
So lohnt der Tugend kühnen Lauf,
nehmt sie in euren Wohnsitz auf!

Oh Isis and Osiris give
Wisdom's spirit to the new couple.
Ye who guide the wanderers' steps,
In danger strengthen them with patience!

Let them see the fruits of their labour!
But should they come to death,
Then reward virtue's bold attempt,
Accept them to your place of dwelling!


(This recording by Les Arts Florissants under William Christie, 1996)
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Post by Jude »

I have an uncopyrighted live recording of Callas singing Martern aller Arten (in an Italian translation). Want me to send it to you to upload so people will know what we've been discussing? :D
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Post by truehobbit »

Callas? :scarey:

Hehe, I'm not exactly a fan of her style, but I'd be very curious to hear it! :D

I didn't know there were un-copyrighted recordings! :shock:

So, yes, great idea, Jude! :) (Although I suspect we've scared everyone away! ;) (Or rather, I have. :blackeye: ) )

I've added another file to the esnips site. Today it's "Lacrimosa" from the Requiem - generally considered Mozart's last composition - the autograph manuscript breaks off after eight bars (the work was completed by his pupil)

http://esnips.com/web/truehobbit-Mozart

Code: Select all

Lacrimosa dies illa 		   Mournful that day
Qua resurget ex favilla		When from the dust shall rise
Judicandus homo reus.		  Guilty man to be judged.
Huic ergo parce, Deus,		 Therefore spare him, O God.
Pie Jesu Domine,			    Merciful Jesus, Lord
Dona eis requiem.			   Grant them rest.

(Another sad and serious tune, I know - I'm thinking of trying to find something cheerful tomorrow, but maybe not, because I swoon for sad music. ;) :) )

(Edited to add: this recording Staatskapelle Dresden under Peter Schreier, 1983)
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Post by Jude »

Check your mailbox, Hobby :)

I just got back from the first night of Dracula. I couldn't see much of the dancing from behind the curtain, but what I did see look really interesting.
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Post by vison »

You haven't scared me away. I'm listening and wish I knew more.

:)
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Post by truehobbit »

Thanks, vison! :hug:

And thanks for the clip, Jude! :D It's not bad, I think! :shock: Sure, it's shrill, but most singing in those days was shrill - LOL. I'll upload it next after this one! :)

So, today is Mozart's 250th birthday anniversary!

:cheers: Congratulations! :cheers:

We had a concert tonight, just got back from there an hour ago - we sang the Kyrie and Gloria from the c-minor mass and the Requiem. It went alright (the choir is not the best, as I think I said somewhere else, but it was ok), my friend said it gave her goosebumps, so we must have got something right! :)

For today I uploaded a piece of music that I hope is nicely exuberant for a birthday: the ouverture to "The Marriage of Figaro" :)

http://esnips.com/web/truehobbit-Mozart

(Btw, I think I can't link directly to the pieces, or can I?)

This recording is The Drottningholm Court Theatre Orchestra under Arnold Östman, 1988.

Drottningholm Castle near Stockholm has a lovely 18th century theatre, where you can see performances with all the theatre-technics available to the 18th century stage. Bergman's Magic Flute used this theatre as a setting for the film.

(I'll see that I find out how to make excerpts from a CD track, so I might give you clips from concertos or so, too - as it is they are all 10 to 15 minutes, which would be a bit too much - or wouldn't it?)

(And I don't have all that much on CD, so the choice is limited - hmmh - Jude...? ;) )
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Post by Jude »

truehobbit wrote: Drottningholm Castle near Stockholm has a lovely 18th century theatre, where you can see performances with all the theatre-technics available to the 18th century stage. Bergman's Magic Flute used this theatre as a setting for the film.
Ooh, I sense a 2007 m00t! We can talk about that in Edinburgh. :D
truehobbit wrote: (And I don't have all that much on CD, so the choice is limited - hmmh - Jude...? ;) )
Anything in particular you're looking for? Let me know and I'll tell you if I have it.

P.S. "shrill"? :salmon:
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Post by truehobbit »

Hehe, Jude, that would be so cool! Stockholm is a lovely place! Though I must say I don't think anyone would make the trip :P (except you and me, apparently! :D ) We should check for performances in Drottningholm theatre! (That's bound to get people to come! :P :D )

Thanks, yes, I'm thinking of some things, I'll PM/YM you. :)
(I don't have Don Giovanni on CD, for example! :shock: Can't have a tribute without something from Giovanni, can you? But I haven't made up my mind yet, there are so many good things. :) )

LOL - well, don't you think singing technique these days has changed? Or maybe it's just recording technique?

Edited to add that I've uploaded Martern aller Arten to the esnips page! :)
http://esnips.com/web/truehobbit-Mozart
This is the aria Jude and I were discussing a few posts back, sung in Italian by Maria Callas. :)

Hmmh, on further hearing, I must say you're right, Jude - it's not shrill. :) Some things are still odd somehow, but I can't tell if it's the recording or the singing - still, there are actually some really nice turns in the way she handles the aria, I think. I can't make up my mind about this - some more listening will be necessary (preferably when it's not four in the morning and I try not to annoy the neighbours ;) ).

Anyway, surfing to find a pic for my sig yesterday I found this cool site:
http://www.webpersonal.net/mozart/cast/inicio.htm

It's in Spanish, and I don't really have any Spanish, just some Italian and French, but I clicked on Juegos anyway, and found this really good quiz! I could understand the questions even with my non-existent Spanish, but the questions are hard! :D
(Maybe the answers are somewhere on the site, but I didn't look for them.)
So, just going from previous knowledge, I got 7 1/2 out of 12 (the half, because when I didn't know for sure I gave myself several tries, and I only knew in what tens of numbers the third question was) - I'm quite proud of the result, I must say, but also banging my head about a few I didn't know, particularly question five, which I suspect I'll listen to some more tonight - I know that I know that one! :bang: ;) :D
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Post by vison »

*sigh*

Where is Chuck Norris when I need him?

He knows all this stuff.

He can give roundhouse kicks to operas. :D
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Post by Sassafras »

Hobby, there's a quiz on BBC to identify Mozart from other composers.

<polishes fingernails>

I got 10 out of 10.

:D

It was ridiculously easy though.

=:)
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"Too many Fingolfins, not enough Sams."

Yes.
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Post by Whistler »

All Mozart lovers MUST see The Abduction Of Figaro, a "simply grand opera" by Professor Peter Schickele, aka P. D. Q. Bach.

Trust me. Just go to Amazon.com and order it. It's expensive. Buy it anyway.
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Post by truehobbit »

Thanks, Sassy, that was fun! :D

Easy to find by typing: bbc mozart quiz in google, but here's the link if anyone wants to try:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/4646778.stm

Yes, very easy, but a nice ego-booster in that! :D

So, did you try the Spanish one?

ROFL, vison - I'm afraid Chuck would join the Last Action Hero in asking "Mo who?" :P :D

Whistler - LOL, I'm always unsure whether you make up things or whether you are being serious, but I'm proud to say that in at least half the cases I get it right! :P So, I took this for "not made up" and googled Peter Schickele - sounds fascinating! :D
So, what's this 'opera' like - does he use existent music (like The Beggars' Opera) or has he composed his own?
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Post by Whistler »

th:

The music is both original and shamelessly plagiarized. Schickele (pretending to have “discovered” works by P. D. Q. Bach, the last and least son of J. S. Bach) writes music that perfectly captures the sound of the Baroque and Classical masters. He has made a career of cataloguing and premiering these works before the public, and has even written a biography of P. D. Q. (probably still in print) that is truly brilliant. I have a copy, autographed by Schickele himself on one of the two occasions I have seen him in concert. For more, visit the link below:

http://www.schickele.com/
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Post by JewelSong »

Schickele is a genius - a terrific musician and wonderfully clever and funny. I have used his "Beethoven Sports Cast" in several music theory classes. (It treats the first movement of the 5th symphony as a sporting event, with a play-by-play announcer and a "color" person - all musically correct and hysterically funny. I'll try to find a transcript.)

Also, his madrigals that have a "secret message" in them when you sing all the parts together...and his concerto for "Horn and Hardardt." There is also one for "Bicycles and Balloons"

Great stuff.

We had a wonderful birthday celebration for Mr. Mozart in school, with a cake and singing and lots of signs - I took pictures, but they are on a colleague's camera, so posting them will have to wait. But everyone in the school knew it was Mozart's 250th and people got a kick out of it.

In the meantime, happy birthday, Wolfie. You rock my socks!

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Post by truehobbit »

Whistler, thanks for the link! :)

It sounds like fun - although the lyrics by P.D.Q. Bach section isn't so very funny or witty, IMO.
So, Jewel, it would be great if you could find that text! :D

There's a clip from The Abduction of Figaro, but it's 3-second excerpts from some of the pieces, so before you know what's happening, it's already over.

Jewel, that pic is great! :D

I've just watched The Magic Flute in a recording from Salzburg from 1991. The singing was lovely and the staging (if that's the right word) very nice, too! The conductor was Sir Georg Solti! :love: LOL, I didn't recognise him ( :oops: ), and found myself wondering that this oldish guy got all the tempi and the energy so right! When it said Solti in the end titles, that explained it! The guy sure had pepper in his blood (as we say here about the Hungarians). ;) :D
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Post by JewelSong »

From an on-line review of the "Beethoven Sportscast" (aka "New Horizons in Music Appreciation"
In all the years that Peter Schickele has been "discovering" the music of P.D.Q. Bach, his greatest accomplishment may be "New Horizons in Music Appreciation". It consists of a (mostly) straightforward performance of the first movement of Beethoven's Fifth Symphony--you know: Dum Dum Dum Dummm. However, two announcers--Schickele and Robert Dennis--give a play-by-play of the performance, along with the noise of an enthusiastic crowd, as if it were a competition between the orchestra and the conductor. Surprisingly, two smarmy sports commentators talking over one of the most beautiful pieces of classical music is not as irritating as you'd think. First, they're very funny. Second, and most significantly, they actually make the music more exciting.

See, Beethoven's Fifth Symphony is the most famous piece of classical music ever--people worldwide recognize it just from its first four notes. There is probably no one on earth who hasn't been exposed to those four notes, and that global familiarity breeds--well, not contempt, but Beethoven's Fifth has certainly become a classical cliche. The commentary by Schickele and Dennis lets us see Beethoven's Fifth for what it always has been--an incredibly exciting work of genius.

After initially dismissing the performance as predictable ("I think we'll be hearing a lot of that four-note motif," notes Schickele), inexpert (the announcers discuss a bad musician for about a minute), and halting ("They keep stopping," Schickele complains), the announcers think they have the ending all figured out, until a shocked Schickele screams, "WAIT A MINUTE! This piece is going into overtime!" From that point, the announcers, the cheering crowd, the players, and the casual listener are taken on a wild and thrilling ride as the players struggle to find the original theme, start a new theme (which is fumbled from one section to another), and finally return to the original four-note motif ("I CAN'T BELIEVE MY EARS!!!" Schickele bellows) as the piece ends.

I can't speak for anyone else (but I sure try, don't I, har har), but since the first time I heard "New Horizons in Music Appreciation", I haven't been able to listen to Beethoven's Fifth without getting shivers...

"New Horizons in Music Appreciation" originally appeared on "P.D.Q. Bach on the Air", but it's also available on "The Wurst of P.D.Q. Bach".
A review of "The Wurst of PDQ Bach" can be found here: http://www.good-music-guide.com/reviews ... q_bach.htm
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Post by truehobbit »

It does sound cool! :D

And thanks for the link - LOL, the list of tracks on the CD is cool - I love "Iphigenia in Brooklyn" - and actually laughed out loud at "The Stoned Guest". :rofl:
(Gives me really weird images of the poor Comtur! :shock: :help: ;) )
There is probably no one on earth who hasn't been exposed to those four notes, and that global familiarity breeds--well, not contempt, but Beethoven's Fifth has certainly become a classical cliche.
This is exactly what I had meant to point out earlier in this thread about the problem for Mozart! :)
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Post by Jude »

The Beethoven Sportscast really has to be heard - the dialogue plays off the music so closely, just reading a transcript wouldn't be the same.

"Iphegenia in Brooklyn" is a classic. :rofl: Our library had that record when we were kids, and we would laugh our heads off at it.
As Hyperion across the flaming sky his chariot did ride, Iphegenia herself in Brooklyn found.
See, I still remember it!
Recit
And in a vision, Iphegenia saw her brother Orestes pursued by the Amenities. And he cried out in anguish, "Oh ye gods, who knows what it is to be running? Only he who is running knows".

Aria
Running knows.
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