The LOTR/Cats crossover

[BrianIsSmilingAtYou]

Shirriff Note: This picture by Brian Frodo the Cat posted in The Parlour at Bag End inspired Jewel's suggestion, quoted in Brian's post below. Jn made the split for a new thread.
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*is thinking of some kind of crossover between "Cats" and "LOTR"*

"Midnight, not a sound from the Dark Lord,
Has my sword lost its memory?
Gollum smiles all alone..."

Someone should write it, I tell ya!. It is begging to be written!



*goes to get a life*

Sauron was originally "Tevildo, Prince of Cats" in the earliest of the Beren and Lúthien tales.

BrianIs AtYou

[Jnyusa]

What a great thread that would be! Would you do the honors, Jewel?

I haven't seen the musical Cats ... only pieces of it - not enough to make sport with the characters - but there's something deliciously evil about an LOTR/Cats crossover given Tolkien's hatred of cats.

One for Tevildo on his dark throne - so it shall be, Brian!

Jn

[JewelSong]

Did Tolkien hate cats? I didn't know that.

The musical takes place in a junkyard and uses TS Eliot's poems and Andrew Lloyd Webber's music. It makes no sense at all, as far as plot goes, but the dancing is cool and the songs are fun - mostly because Webber was forced to use Eliot's words and rhythms and so he had to be a bit more musically creative than his usual tripe. [/anti-Webber rant]

But it has definite possibilities with an LOTR cross-over...most definite possibilities. *thinks*

[Sassafras]

I must admit that I simply don't understand Tolkien's ailurophobia. And I usually choose to ignore the fact when it surfaces. How could such a creative. spiritually minded person NOT like cats?

It goes against the grain, it does.

Think of the list of cat lovers ...

Mark Twain
Albert Schweitzer
Mohammed
Sir Winston Churchill
Alexander Dumas
Charles Dickens
Cardinal Richelieu
T.S. Elliot
Victor Hugo
William Wordsworth
Henry James
Ernest Hemingway
Samuel Johnson

and then think of the cat haters ....

Napoleon
Hitler
Mussolini
Julius Caesar

Need I say more?

It pains me to consider Tolkien is included on that last list. Literally pains me.

[BrianIsSmilingAtYou]

Tolkien did not completely dislike cats. He wrote a nice little cat poem:

Code: Select all

Cat

The fat cat on the mat
  may seem to dream
of nice mice that suffice
  for him, or cream;
but he free, maybe,
  walks in thought
unbowed, proud, where loud
  roared and fought
his kin, lean and slim,
  or deep in den
in the East feasted on beasts
  and tender men.
The giant lion with iron
  claw in paw,
and huge ruthless tooth
  in gory jaw;
the pard dark-starred,
  fleet upon feet,
that oft soft from aloft
  leaps upon his meat
where woods loom in gloom --
  far now they be,
  fierce and free,
  and tamed is he;
but fat cat on the mat
  kept as a pet
  he does not forget.

	-- J. R. R. Tolkien

BrianIs AtYou

[Sassafras]

I haven't seen that before, Brian.

Perhaps it isn't true, then.

The only reference I can find in Letters is this (which does not speak too well of this particular breed)

I fear that to me Siamese cats belong to the fauna of Mordor.



He doesn't say 'all' cats. So there is hope.

[truehobbit]

I can't imagine Tolkien hating any animal, really.

The cat-poem is in The Adventures of Tom Bombadil - really a must-read, I think!

I didn't know your quote, Sassy, but I must say I'm inclined to agree.
Siamese cats are ugly, no doubt - if there were cats in Mordor, they'd be Siamese ones.

And I don't know the musical Cats apart from that one song - it uses Eliot's words? I've got the poems at home, but don't remember "Memory" in there - must look again.

One of my favourite cat-poems is Christopher Smart's "My Cat Jeffrey" - hmmh, should I post that here or in the pet thread or in the poetry thread? I guess I'd first have to find it online anyway.

[MaidenOfTheShieldarm]

Voronwë, glad to hear you're feeling better! Amazing how little things like that can make one feel so much better.

Frelga, your vacation in the tropics sounds mahvelous!
I tried looking for that painting from the link you gave me, but couldn't seem to find an artist. I also thought it was a real historic (can't remember the technical term used) painting.

Hobby and Brian, those were . . . most interesting. Especially the cat one and the last one of Hobby's.
He looks almost Dread Pirate Frodo-ish in a few, though.

TP, I'm glad you figured things out with your mom. I have no idea what was going on, but it's never nice to be estranged.

Jewel,

Oh, now, I never, was there ever,
An Istar so clever as Magical Mr. Gandalf.

That was a bizarre show. Some good music, though. My dad has a cat, Walter, with really thick fur, so he has to get Walter shaved to get rid of the matts in his fur sometimes, and he always ends up looking like one of the people in Cats. It's hard to take him seriously looking like that.

It would seem that Tolkien wasn't too fond of cats, considering Queen Beruthiel and Tevildo. I can't imagine why!

I''m sure I'm forgetting loads of people, for which I apologize. Happy New Year to all those who celebrate it!

[JewelSong]

And I don't know the musical Cats apart from that one song - it uses Eliot's words? I've got the poems at home, but don't remember "Memory" in there - must look again.

Hobby, most of the songs are Eliot's poems verbatim - from his "Old Possum's Book of Practical Cats" and they are quite delightful! But the "Memory" song is based on another poem of his called "Rhapsody on a Windy Night." It is not from the collection of cat poems and is a much darker poem than the others. Here it is:

Rhapsody on a Windy Night

Twelve o'clock.
Along the reaches of the street
Held in a lunar synthesis,
Whispering lunar incantations
Dissolve the floors of memory
And all its clear relations,
Its divisions and precisions,
Every street lamp that I pass
Beats like a fatalistic drum,
And through the spaces of the dark
Midnight shakes the memory
As a madman shakes a dead geranium.

Half-past one,
The street lamp sputtered,
The street lamp muttered,
The street lamp said, "Regard that woman
Who hesitates towards you in the light of the door
Which opens on her like a grin.
You see the border of her dress
Is torn and stained with sand,
And you see the corner of her eye
Twists like a crooked pin."

The memory throws up high and dry
A crowd of twisted things;
A twisted branch upon the beach
Eaten smooth, and polished
As if the world gave up
The secret of its skeleton,
Stiff and white.
A broken spring in a factory yard,
Rust that clings to the form that the strength has left
Hard and curled and ready to snap.

Half-past two,
The street lamp said,
"Remark the cat which flattens itself in the gutter,
Slips out its tongue
And devours a morsel of rancid butter."
So the hand of a child, automatic,
Slipped out and pocketed a toy that was running along the quay.
I could see nothing behind that child's eye.
I have seen eyes in the street
Trying to peer through lighted shutters,
And a crab one afternoon in a pool,
An old crab with barnacles on his back,
Gripped the end of a stick which I held him.

Half-past three,
The lamp sputtered,
The lamp muttered in the dark.

The lamp hummed:
"Regard the moon,
La lune ne garde aucune rancune,
She winks a feeble eye,
She smiles into corners.
She smoothes the hair of the grass.
The moon has lost her memory.
A washed-out smallpox cracks her face,
Her hand twists a paper rose,
That smells of dust and old Cologne,
She is alone
With all the old nocturnal smells
That cross and cross across her brain."
The reminiscence comes
Of sunless dry geraniums
And dust in crevices,
Smells of chestnuts in the streets,
And female smells in shuttered rooms,
And cigarettes in corridors
And cocktail smells in bars."

The lamp said,
"Four o'clock,
Here is the number on the door.
Memory!
You have the key,
The little lamp spreads a ring on the stair,
Mount.
The bed is open; the tooth-brush hangs on the wall,
Put your shoes at the door, sleep, prepare for life."

The last twist of the knife.

-- T. S. Eliot

[Jnyusa]

... fauna of Mordor ...


Yup, that's where I got the idea that he hated cats.

Here's a link with the lyrics to all the songs:

http://www.lyricsondemand.com/soundtracks/c/catslyrics/

If Frodo is going to moan to the moonlight above Mordor, then he would be singing the role of Grizzabella ... Frodobello perhaps?

Other characters are:

Old Gumbie Cat
Rum Tum Tugger ... (Rum Gum Gimli?)
Bustopher Jones
Mongojerrie and Rumpelteazer
Old Deuteronomy
Gus, the Theatre Cat
Growltiger
Skimbleshanks, the railway cat
Macavity, the Mystery Cat
Mr. Mistoffelees (Mossy's Gandalf)

The cats in general are Jellicle Cats

And from the song for naming cats, some suggestions:
Munkustrap, Quaxo or Coricopat
Bombalurina, or else Jellylorum

I'll try to find a script outline as well. (As you can see, I think this is an idea with LOTS of potential.)
edit: what am I thinking? we don't need a script outline, but a description of the characters would be helpful. Haven't found anything like that yet but will keep trying.

Hobby, not all the lyrics in "Cats" are taken directly from the Eliot poems but a great many of them are either used directly or their story is paraphrased. The characters are from Eliot. The lyrics to Memory are not from the poem but fit the character.

Jn

[JewelSong]

Jnyusa....this could easily take over the Bag End parlour - so maybe we want to give it its very own thread? (Someplace out of the way....LOL!)

Maybe copy your post into a new thread as a way of...sparking the imaginations of those of us with no lives...I mean, with an abundance of creativity?

This sentence alone: If Frodo is going to moan to the moonlight above Mordor, then he would be singing the role of Grizzabella ... Frodobello perhaps?

has given me all sorts of notions. Many of them should never, ever see the light of day.

PS: Put it in "The Cottage of Lost Play!"

[Sassafras]

This sentence alone: If Frodo is going to moan to the moonlight above Mordor, then he would be singing the role of Grizzabella ... Frodobello perhaps?

has given me all sorts of notions. Many of them should never, ever see the light of day.

I'm curious to see what you come up with ... although I hereby do now confess I do not care for the musical 'Cats'.



Hobby, that fauna -- Mordor quote was from letter #219

[Jnyusa]

Jewel, we cross-posted up above. I didn't realize that the lyrics to memory were taken from another Eliot poem. Thanks for that! (I'd also not read that particularly poem before)

Yes, with everyone's permission I'm going to split this off into it's own thread, after finding a convenient place.

Jn

[MaidenOfTheShieldarm]

Yay for the new thread!

And now, before I have to leave in a few moments, I bring you Bilbo Baggins, Mystery Hobbit! (based on Macavity, Mystery Cat)

Bilbo Baggin's a mysterious one
He's called Hidden Hobbit
For he's a master burgular who can defy the law
He's the bafflement of Smaug (Dragon)
The Flying One's despair
For when he reached the scene of crime
Bilbo Baggins wasn't there!

Bilbo Baggins, Bilbo Baggins there's no one like Bilbo Baggins
He's broken some elvish laws
He breaks the law of visibility
His powers of disappearance would make a few elves stare
And when you reach the scene of crime, Bilbo Baggins isn't there!

More later! And very much looking forward to seeing what Jewel comes up with.

[Jnyusa]

Great arc, Mossy! But I can't erase an image of Mr. Spock singing it!



It ought to be sung by two young elvish maidens from Rivendell in the Hall of Fire. And Aragorn should rebuke them for the cheek of making songs about the adventures of Bilbo Baggins while he's sitting right in front of them, lost to senile dementia.

Jn

[BrianIsSmilingAtYou]

The following is a poem by French poet Leconte de Lisle on a similar theme to Tolkien's poem (I had added both pieces to the "Cat" thread in Bag End, but I thought it might do better here). It is one of my favorites from the pieces produced by the writers of the Parnassian movement.

This is from the point of view of a dream of an actual big cat, as opposed to Tolkien's which is a domesticated cat remembering in a dream (translation follows):

Le rêve du jaguar

Sous les noirs acajous, les lianes en fleur,
Dans l'air lourd, immobile et saturé de mouches,
Pendent, et, s'enroulant en bas parmi les souches,
Bercent le perroquet splendide et querelleur,
L'araignée au dos jaune et les singes farouches.
C'est là que le tueur de boeufs et de chevaux,
Le long des vieux troncs morts à l'écorce moussue,
Sinistre et fatigué, revient à pas égaux.
Il va, frottant ses reins musculeux qu'il bossue ;
Et, du mufle béant par la soif alourdi,
Un souffle rauque et bref, d'une brusque secousse,
Trouble les grands lézards, chauds des feux de midi,
Dont la fuite étincelle à travers l'herbe rousse.
En un creux du bois sombre interdit au soleil
Il s'affaisse, allongé sur quelque roche plate ;
D'un large coup de langue il se lustre la patte ;
Il cligne ses yeux d'or hébétés de sommeil ;
Et, dans l'illusion de ses forces inertes,
Faisant mouvoir sa queue et frissonner ses flancs,
Il rêve qu'au milieu des plantations vertes,
Il enfonce d'un bond ses ongles ruisselants
Dans la chair des taureaux effarés et beuglants.


Prose Translation by William Rees (I determined the line breaks--it is not a line for line translation):

The Jaguar's Dream

Beneath the black mahogany trees, the flowering creepers hang
in the heavy, motionless, fly-soaked air,
and coiling downwards among the tree stumps,
they cradle the gorgeous bickering parrot,
the yellow-backed spider and the wild and timid monkeys.
It is there that the killer of oxen and horses,
sinister and weary, returns with measured steps
along the old dead trunks with their mossy bark.
He goes, rubbing and hunching his muscular loins;
and from his gaping muzzle, heavy with thirst,
a short rasping breath abruptly stirs and disturbs
the great lizards, hot from the fires of noon,
whose flight glitters through the russet grass.
In a hollow of the dark wood forbidden to the sun,
he sinks down, stretched out on some flat rock;
with a broad stroke of his tongue he polishes his paw;
he blinks his golden, sleep-dulled eyes, and,
in the illusion of his dormant power, moving his tail,
with quivering flanks, he dreams that in the heart of green groves
with one bound he is plunging his dripping claws
into the flesh of startled, bellowing bulls.

BrianIs AtYou

[Jnyusa]

Thanks for reposting that here, Brian. Hmmm, sounds like the dreaming of Shelob or the Watcher.

Jn

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So ... this is the story of a magic collar, made by Tevildo, Lord of the Cats, for the purpose of binding all the cats of Arda to his will.

It is the last of twenty magic collars made to enslave the cats of Middle Earth. The other nineteen each have their special bell, but the One Collar is smooth and unadorned, made of solid, malleable gold ... and every cat who lays eyes on it wants to wear it, to their Doom!

[WampusCat]

I fear that to me Siamese cats belong to the fauna of Mordor.

He just hadn't met the WampusCat.

[Primula Baggins]

Well, Siamese can be eerie. I had two in my youth, bluepoints—Ching and her son Charlie, who was cross-eyed and clinically insane. He could make sounds that would freeze the blood in your veins, and I speak as someone whose younger brother learned to play the bagpipes in her hearing.

[WampusCat]

They do have a certain urge to communicate.